Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

How many gay people have suddenly realised that they are actually straight?

I would say you would find alot who claim to be straight, who are actually gay, who live in conservative parts of America or are forced to undergo conversion therapy by their parents. You do realise that there still parts of western society that is not welcoming to gay people.

It's worse than cruel. She literally wants to mandate trans people out of existence.

If the argument is that gender is different than sex, why are you lumping sexuality and sexual preference into the trans debate?

There is absolutely nothing linking being gay and being trans!

Disabled people have been involved in the LGB movement since day1, where is their letter? What about bald people?

Its a patently, demonstrably ridiculous standpoint that is clearly done to make it next to impossible to talk about trans in anything other than a positive spin.

Keep telling them they don't exist in order to reduce and eliminate them...

You go ahead and explain to me what a man is and what a woman is and how one knows one from the other and perhaps then we can talk.

I was responding to your statement that the T is the worst thing to happen to the lgb movement. I was merely pointing out how false that statement is as the T do not seek to reduce the rights of those in the lgb community while the conservative movement does.

Lumping T in with LGB definitely damages LGB right.

If trans people want to support gay rights then go right ahead, why do they need to tack the T onto the end?

Trans have been part of the movement since thr 60s why do want to throw them out of it? I guess it made more sense then because they were both minorities being denwid rights by Conservative society. I have yet to hear a coherent how having T in the movement is damaging the movement.

Well if you note it's extremist then it is not agood reason to decouple the t from the lgtbq movement.

@AndrewJRenko Did you read the article you quoted?

case of the troubled 22-year-old

I was actually asking about cases involving people from Ireland though.

He or they were 14 at the time unable to read or write but yet could consent to life changing surgery,

Now you want case's involving people from Ireland,if they are being sent to the same clinic it's safe to say it's can or could had already happened, this the same clinic who was coaching vulnerable children how to ask and demand puberty blockers,

Don't like the evidence that you demanded?

But again I don't see how the T is hurting the lgbtq. I see extremist voices on the anti trans side too. If the T activists are not activately seeking rights to diminished on the lgb side I can only conclude that it is a divide and conquer approach to weaken the whole lgbtq movement.

It seems though that there is a perception that the medical establishment is pushing kids or adults into unnecessary surgery nefariously. I don't think there is adequate evidence to support this.

Something non political and personal to the people involved should not be used as a wedge issue in the culture wars between right and left but it seems that in the last few years it has.

I'm sure I could but I have no intention of trawling the net to provide them for you as if you are cross examining me in a witness box.

I know exactly what 'affirmative care' is all about and where it has come from and that is the idealogical view that people are transgender because they are in fact the gender they feel they are, and that they should legally and socially be regarded equivalent to their 'cis' equivalent. There isn't a hope in hell this is ever going to happen. It couldn't possibly happen even if there were no gender critics at all. It's impossible all on it's own.

When a psychiatrist evaluates a patient it is not that they are attempting to ascertain that the male in front of them is a girl/woman (or visa versa), but that the person in front of them is typically transgender or something else. Two completely different things. The psychiatrist clinical need not give a jot whether they personally believe the patient is a man or woman or not.

What they have to do is classify them. That is they evaluate them and match them to types of people they've encounter before and then recommend them for treatment if any in accordance with the classification they've evaluated them as. And that is because the people in front of them are not all the same, i.e. the do not all have the same psychology.

Dr. Az Hakeem alludes to this here https://youtu.be/No1ux09kPwY?t=465 where he says there's not a single thing called 'trans' in his professional opinion as he has dealt with a whole spectrum of psychologies.

None of this is news to me, as I've encounter first hand, transexuals, transvestites/autogynephiliacs, hyper-effeminate homosexuals etc. And that is because you'd more likely encounter them socially on the gay scene than anywhere else.

So the reason affirmative care approach can't work should now be obvious to all. And that is because it could put people on a path of medical treatment that is not appropriate for them, which is why the two Irish gender doctors lodged a formal complaint to the HSE, the subject of this thread.

The extremist voices are generally the ones talking to each other in this debate on both sides it makes the arguments so emotive. Like most issues I just go with what the medical establishments view is, I don't think they are trying to pressurise people to transition.

The only time we didn't see this emotive argument lately was,in the Enoch Burke case where the extreme views were only expressed on one side.

Do you think it isn't extremist to be campaigning to mandate trans people out of existence, to be extensively quoting anti semitic conspiracy theories from Jennifer Bilek that Jewish people created trans people, to be stamping on and Ripping up a pride flag.

https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/antisemitism-anti-lgbtq-hate-converge-extremist-and-conspiratorial-beliefs

If you cant see that the only way to reduce eating disorders to to treat them then I'm not sure I can help you.

The reason you decouple it is that being trans has nothing to do with your sexuality, gender != sex is one of the basic ideas behind the trans movement right?

I dont know how many times I can explain it.

Trans has nothing to do with being gay. Why would it be beneficial to the Gay Rights movement? It dilutes the entire argument if you bundle in things that are nothing to do with homo or bi-sexuality.

If you dilute the message of a movement then of course its damaging. Note that I have explained several times that the problem is not trans people supporting gay rights, bundling Trans rights into conversations about Gay rights is the problem.

Btw, they dont all support each other as you purport.

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN1TV0V0/

Well considering Pride was setup by a group of hay rights activists, yeah, it also has nothing to do with trans.

Restoring LGB isnt a trans issue, thats the whole bloody point I'm making. Stop turning everything into a trans issue or looking at it from a trans lens. Gay rights are rights for gay people, nothing to do with people who have a problem with their gender.

I'm sure the T people absolutely love being part of the LGB movement, lots of fringe groups love to jump on the band wagon of a successful movement.

According to wiki lgbt has been used since 1988, so not sure how you think they are jumping on the bandwagon. Lgbt as a term is a trans issue as they are included in the umbrella term. If you want to only use the term lgb that is fine, it's a free country, but lgbt is the more commonly used term.