Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

So you believe the Palestinean population that have by & large supported this depravity must take full responsibility aswell?

I posted a link from a Christian site based in Jerusalem - you posted links from Al Jazeera, which is funded by Qatar, a country with strong links to Hamas.

But yeah, your links are totally reliable and even disprove mine, even though mine, unlike yours, also hold up in terms of real life numbers: the Christian population in Gaza is almost extinct, whereas the Christian population in Israel is stable and even thriving in economic terms.

Maybe you can find a link from Islamic Resistance to prove me even wronger? 😁

While Israel being the world's only Jewish state is probably part of this, I think there's more to it.

I've seen many posters here make erroneous references to the demographics of Israeli Jews, and the sense that I get is that some of the Left - though not all - view Israel as having committed the cardinal sin in their religion of radical Leftism: that of supposedly being a white settler colony. It is for this reason above all else that some posters here want the State of Israel to be annihilated and others subject it to standards no other belligerent fighting for its existence have been held to.

And I say "supposedly" because the data directly contradict them. Firstly the white part. The demographics of Israeli Jews show that only 30% of them are of full blooded European or European-American ancestry. The vast majority have full or part Middle Eastern ancestry by blood. The reason for this is not difficult to understand. The Mizrahi Israeli Jews made Aliyah as refugees from other parts of the Middle East since 1947. Not that it should matter, as Israel is a religious state, not an ethnic state, but to some on the Left, skin colour is everything and some are born with original sin based on same.

As to Israel being a "settler" state, again no. The demographics are clear. Most of those who made their journey to Israel did so as refugees, from various conflicts all over the world. And 80% of Israeli Jews were born in Israel, so yes, by definition it is their country, especially if they do not have citizenship of any other.

As to being a "colonial" state/whatever, this is also false. A colony must, by definition, have a Metropolitan State. That is, an overseas territory of an Empire or other form of realm must have a clearly defined homeland for people of the realm, with which the colonial adventurers identify, the way European countries had overseas possessions prior to World War 2. Israel cannot thus be a colony because the Jews did not have a homeland. They did not expand an existing realm into Israel, their Metropolitan State IS Israel. Being generous, you could claim that the settlements in the Disputed Territories are colonies, but only if you accept that Israel within the '67 borders is the Metropolitan State - i.e. the homeland of the Israeli people.

Yet nobody who claims that Israel itself is a colony can tell us exactly where the Jewish metropolitan state is.

The last possible reason for Israel being hated so much could be envy and spite - that is, precisely because it's not a s***hole that it's getting dunked on so much.

They have had to work hard at building up their legacy since WW2, a slow process of overcoming doubts and winning people to their story. And now destroyed their hard work in the past couple of months. I knew local Jewish lads growing up, just like the rest of us, except for various traditions. We went to college and they were talking of their military service. A most belligerent state.

Whataboutery.

You keep making reference to Irish history.....................but it seems from your understanding of them, that you aren't actually familiar with it at all.........

There' a difference between whataboutery and pointing out hypocrisy and double standards.

You're trying to claim that Israel is wrong in this war in Gaza because Christians are badly treated by a tiny minority of Jewish extremists, even though your own links mentioned the people responsible being arrested. It's not whataboutery to point out that if you're concerned about the wellbeing of Christians in that region, it's strange that you don't care that Hamas, the government of Gaza, treats its Christians FAR worse than Israel does.

Of course, if what you really want to do is grab straws to make out that "Israel Bad" then I can see why you don't like being confronted by facts.

Yadda yadda yadda.

If that's all you have then we're finished here. Christians routinely attacked in Israel. Jewish groups describe such attacks as legitimate traditions. Even their President had to make statements against such attacks because they were so frequent and were garnering so much Western media attention.

Is your response "no, the President was mistaken and such attacks do not occur". No, it's "but but but, quick, look over there, here is an Israeli funded blog that said some people weren't treated well in Gaza in 2008". It's a complete non-sequitur.

No, just explaining to the questioner that a ceasefire requires both sides to agree. Hth

Please do try to keep up. A BBC report was given of a UK MP who has family members holed up in a Christian church/facility in Gaza. Two Palestinian Christian women - a mother and daughter - were murdered there by Israeli snipers. They were of no threat to the IDF and there were no belligerents in the area. They basically shot them for the fun of it.

I merely added context about the Israeli man-on-the-street attitude to Christians. you have to reach for the whataboutery, going on about an Israeli blog about stories from 2007. complete nonsense.

“overcoming doubts”! After WW 2?

You appear to have issues with them/Israel regardless of the Palestinians issue. Interesting.

“brown lives”. Sigh. How many times have you tried this in the thread? It’s pathetic.

Seems like you fed up hearing people going on about all those brown lives being ended? Perhaps you'd rather that the international media just didn't bother reporting on them so that the IDF could concentrate on ramping up numbers even more efficiently.

You might be on to something, if there weren't tens of thousands dead Palestinians who were killed by Israel in the last 2 months, hundreds of thousands injured, and millions displaced and suffering from loss of food, fuel and security.

This perpetual demand for Jews to be seen as the victim no longer is accepted without question.

We've heard too much from their leadership and ambassadors about how they truly view Palestine, your complete dismissal of their acts in and around Palestine say it all.

If you really cared about the Jewish people, you wouldn't be advocating for their leaders to make so much of the world look unfavorably on them.

I think you're very much overstating it.

It wasn't the last bombing of German cities and fire bombing went on not least in the great fire raids in Japan with a greater loss of life than the atomic bombings.

If there was the outcry you're suggesting that wouldn't have happened. How could it be that shocking after all the bombing of cities that had been done by all sides for many years.

Partly the reason it's more prominent in people's consciousness (and no one mentions all the other bombing) is the Nazi used it as propaganda calling it terror bombing and overstating the death toll. (Ironic since they had bombed civilians in the Spanish civil war and firebombing in the blitz etc.) They also down played the military activities in and around Dresden.

Anyway that has become the narrative.

Not to dismiss the horror of it.