Prime Time Gender Issues (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)

The article is the absolute reverse of what was suggested - that it was evidence of minors getting surgery. The story is the absolute reverse - showing that a young person was getting support and treatment from age 14 and specifically didn't get approved for surgery until age 22).

So for the fifth or sixth time, I ask you - is there any actual evidence of minors from Ireland getting surgery?

Do I need to explain the Daily Heil's track record in riling up hatred against vulnerable groups?

I would agree there are tensions but from everything I have reqd only fringe movements exist to get the T out of lgbt. The poster makes good points as to why they shouldn't be under the same umbrella term but it seems the term lgbt is now the recognised term with the general public and in the gay community.

Again, there's a bit of a difference between 'being a bit of a tomboy' and being trans. What you felt is very, very different to what trans people feel and experience, as you'd find out if you actually listened to them.

It's only insulting if you assume that every person with a disability thinks and feels the same as you. There is decades of evidence that suggests that they don't.

The ones damaging the movement are the ones who make up stories about trans minors having surgery with zero evidence to suggest this happens.

Why would you need to 'trawl the net'? You say that this is what trans activists are saying - so where exactly did you hear them say this?

Very strange that you can't point to any specific examples. It seems to suggest that you're making up your own stories about what people said so you can find something to argue with rather than actually quoting what people have said. It's a frequent tactic on this thread.

Have you reported any of these doctors where you apparently have specific information of them not acting in the best interests of their patients?

Is there any evidence of ANY Irish children 'being pushed' through the process, or does this fall into the 'fiction' category like your stories of Irish children having surgery?

The tensions are with a tiny percentage of the L in Britain, along with a tiny percentage of CIS women, who've decided that punching down on a vulnerable group, working in partnership with obvious Nazis and other far right extremists is somehow a good tactic.

WHich is the opposite of what Helen Joyce was talking about, so I'm not sure that your analogy to eating disorders is any way relevant?

Surely the doctor can apply the chemical test you mentioned earlier. Are you going to provide more details about those chemicals?

That's a great reason to let trans people get on with their trans lives, but some people seem to have made it their mission in life to punch down on trans people.

How can you define trans without defining either of the "legacy" genders?

To say that you dont feel like a male without being able to define what a male is seems...problematic to the argument.

Ah the old " I dont need to define the terms of my argument argument"

Perhaps if you spent more time defining the genders and less time defining TERFs etc you might make some actual progress.

Again, how you can say that you are not one gender when you cant define what either gender is?

Says it all that you view trans people as people who have a problem

Yes

Several posters here don't seem to have reached that level of maturity.

Wait till you hear about what women experience with cis men.

Your definition and my definition don't really matter, because presumably, like me, you have no professional experience in the matter.

Are you suggesting that trans people aren't real?

Hopefully some have discovered positive things about the determination of some people to set up a big scary bogeyman about kids from Ireland having gender affirmation surgery despite there being zero evidence to support this.

You sure didn't. Its actually a tactic to have a meaningful conversation or debate. Its why we have books that exist to define the meaning of words, otherwise its impossible to have a meaningful conversation.

No one who wants to force the rest of the world to accept trans men or trans women will bother to define "men" or "women". So how you can be "trans" something that has no definition is impossible. How can you say that you differ from something that you can't define. If you cant define it you cant define yourself as different from it. Its simply illogical. The reason why you throw out this guff of "tactic" is because to define it would render your argument moot.

If I asked you to tell me if you were cis-plert or trans-plert what would you say? I'm pretty sure you would first need to know what a plert was.

You cannot have a debate without definitions. Whether these definitions are stated or implied then clarified.

If you haven't a definition for a woman or indeed a man you will struggle in any debate around trans, particularly those around women's spaces or sports.

What is a trans woman?

What is a trans man?

What is a man?

What is a woman?

For example if your definition of a woman is a person who wears skirts, makeup and drinks tea then it differs a lot from my own.

Are all good things to define in something such as this as they are core to the debate and it does appear people have varying ideas of what they are.

"Cis" is identical to "woke" in the sense that anyone using it in conversation can just be immediately dismissed as not worth engaging.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that trans people don't exist....there are very obviously people out there who were born as a biological male or female who, at a point in time, or over a course of time feel that they are the opposite to the sex they are without actually being able to explain how that journey looks or where the endpoint is. Indeed others feel something, not necessarily man or woman - this is also where things get a bit crazy in any other conversation. They give that something a name and look for afirmation of that.

The above is all well and good, generally, once they are adults, they accept the consequences for their actions and indeed their feelings don't impinge on the rights of others.

That's when the issues begin to happen and when those that question things get called "transphopic" or indeed being acused of inducing "transpanic" - which as you might agree aren't good starting point for an adult debate on the rights of everyone.

Have you ever actually spoken to a trans person?

Any chance you can answer any of the questions posed to you? The constant deflection gets kinda old across all these threads.

I am 100% sure that at certain times trans people believe that they are trans. A belief system doesn't imply any changes required to reality though.