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Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2022 - No PM requests - See Mod note post #1

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  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭jiminho


    Hi folks, just want to get your thoughts. We’ve almost completed a fairly major renovation at our house and have some “leftover” money from the loan we took out. Not necessarily looking to spend but we were thinking of Solar as we have a roof that faces due south at a good angle with no shading. We got one quote for €5.9k (4.3kw). Based on 31c/kw with our supplier and expected power generation, this works out at a saving of approx. €120/mth (€1,440/annum). The loan amount to pay for this works out at €65/mth (€780/annum) over 10 years. Even if we only get the feed in tarrif of 21c/kw, that should pay for the loan and then some.

    Am I missing anything or is this an easy slam dunk decision?



  • Registered Users Posts: 797 ✭✭✭tonysopprano


    Not as straight forward as that. What about nighttime or when the sun don't shine or long periods over winter?. Will you be in the house to use whatever you generate?. Do you use electric showers, washers, dryers, heat pump, electric heating etc. All must be considered for each individual house

    If you can do the job, do it. If you can't do the job, just teach it. If you really suck at it, just become a union executive or politician.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,719 ✭✭✭deezell


    If this were the case, installers would put in solar free with a meter, and take the revenue from you for the solar power that would otherwise come from the utility, then you own the kit after 10 years.

    This model works commercially when replacing large industrial and commercial premises older fluorescent lighting with LED, installer pockets the savings for x years.

    €5.9 seems a good price though for 4.3 kw, what, 10 panels?



  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭jiminho


    I WFH 4 days/wk. Use gas for heating and hot water. It looks like our annual energy use was approx 4,000kwh last year.

    Understood about the “sun don’t shine” comment but over the course of a year, are the energy generation calcs fairly accurate? The feed in tarrif for SSE is 21c/kwh so at the calculated annual energy generated value of approx 4600kwh, this works out at €80/mth (960/annum) so essentially paying for the loan. That’s if 100% of the energy generated goes back to the grid so surely I would end up somewhere in between….



  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭jiminho


    Yeah 10 panels, 430kw per panel.

    What am I missing then from my calcs?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,719 ✭✭✭deezell


    4600 a little optimistic, unless you're in the sunny South East. https://solarshare.ie/news/are-solar-panels-worth-it-in-ireland-2/

    I'd say 950 Kwh/Kwp might be more realistic, but if it displaces say one third at home use, 31c and two thirds at FIT, 21c, you're still looking at €80+ per month*. Unknown are possible maintenance costs over ten years, and a big drop in FIT if energy prices drop. Looks like it would pay alright.

    * 950×4.3=4085kwh/annum. 4085×⅓×31c + 4085x⅔×21c = €994/annum, €83 per month.

    Post edited by deezell on


  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭jiminho


    Thank you, that was the answer I was looking for. So that’s €15/mth additionally saved on €65/mth invested but that excludes any “risk” with rate changes and maintenance as you say. Quite a small amount tbh but it is a 23% return on paper. Paying off the loan sooner will probably mitigate the risk costs. Ok, something to think about. Cheers!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,528 ✭✭✭bullit_dodger



    In a nutshell (especially now with the removal of VAT there recently) installing solar is is one of the more fiscally beneficial things you can do to your house. Typical pay periods for a non-battery installation is about 6-7 years, with an extra year or two if you have a battery. Some could be as low as 5 years, and some 10years....It's complicated to go into it over a quick IM here as it depends on the size of the installation, your consumption, the quote you paid for the system, the rates your on with your supplier, etc.

    Larger systems "tend" to have a faster payback period - but a decent rule of thumb would be in about the 6-7 year period. After that, your "quids in" and can enjoy lower bills for years. If you have the space - go bigger than 4.3kwp. At some stage in the future you probably will have an electric car and you will want the extra juice. Think ahead.



  • Registered Users Posts: 824 ✭✭✭HotSwap


    Yeah. The offers that huawei had on inverters seems to be translating into good prices.



  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭jiminho


    Cheers man. That’s the max we can go for the available roof space and I think the output will essentially match our requirement for the year but the goal will be to get an EV and if a manufacturer would have reverse charging on the batteries, the ROI will be even better



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,719 ✭✭✭deezell


    You'll want plenty of free electricity to compensate for the 37% depreciation in a single year on EVs. Just read Adrian Weckler in the Indo today. €15,000 drop on an Id3, not quite a year old. Ouch.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    Sounds like the car market is back to normality.

    Same thing happens to an ice car. Second hand market is very stale across the board.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,102 ✭✭✭mathie


    Hi

    I've heard some horror stories of companies not uploading documentation to SEAI for people to get their grants.

    Have people paid the full amount to companies before getting their grant or should companies be trusted?

    thanks



  • Registered Users Posts: 300 ✭✭power101


    Any thoughts on this - it includes removing 3 thermal panels that are built into the roof and reroofing the area they are in before installing 12 panels. Also Includes a Zappi charger

    Net of grants it's €11k

    Proposal Details: 12 x Glass to Glass Bi Facial or similar, Mono Crystalline 430Wp (505Wp with Rear Side)

    PV Module (with 35-year warranty output & 35-year warranty product) 1 x SolarEdge Inverter (with 12 years warranty)

    12 x SolarEdge S440 Power Optimiser (with Arc protection & 25 years warranty) 1 x SolarEdge Import / Export meter

    1 x Eddi Hot Water Diverter (with 3 years Labour and Parts Warranty)

    1 x Zappi Type 2 EV Charger (with 3 years Labour and Parts Warranty)

    1 x 4 Pole Fireman Switch 1 x Electrical Materials, Fuses, etc…

    1 x Full Install and Grid Commission

    1 x Wi-Fi Kit and Free Monitoring Portal for Life

    1 x SEAI Grant Paperwork Management Including BER Assessment for the Grant.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    How many could you fit if you kept the thermal? Does it still work as it should? your trading 70% efficient panels for 20%.

    Id try and keep the thermal and ditch the eddi. You'll be saving on removal, replacement of the roof and the eddi

    While solar thermal isnt usually recommended now because pv is so easy and straight forward.

    Where's the Immersion in your DHW tank? If its not at the bottom, your not going to have nowhere near the same amount of hot water.

    Also solar edge is expensive kit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 153 ✭✭Dev1234


    Also will there be much gain from mounting bi-facial panels on a roof?

    I thought they were more suited to ground mounted systems where the rear face could capture some light unless I'm missing something in your setup?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,719 ✭✭✭deezell


    Great points @graememk and @Dev1234 . Is this the installers initiative? Probably wants a uniform look, and a straight run on the roof, plus the space. Solar thermal worth having. If you're selling the (carefully) removed kit, post it here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,252 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Hi all,

    Hoping to get 4-5kWp in the New Year, do installers typically charge much to integrate existing panels, any issues with doing so? House has 1.2kWp but I'm not looking to move them as new panels will be on the other side of the house so hopefully a simple installation?

    No plans for a battery as I have an EV so I suppose it's just a matter of getting a few quotes?

    Going to start reading through this thread.

    Post edited by DaveyDave on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,719 ✭✭✭deezell


    If they use near identical/same spec panels, there should be no issues in adding them into a larger panel string. The work and materials involved would be a few DC panels interconnect cables, like adding a few extension leads. However, if these panels don't have the same aspect to the sun from the new ones, string output would be compromised if they were wired in a series string. The lowest performing location will determine the output for all panels, unless expensive optimisers are fitted. Is there room for extra panels on the same roof section as the 3 panels I'm assuming you have. How does the new panel location differ, is it back of the house, side north facing etc? It may be the case that you'll connect just your 3 existing panels to one string input of your new inverter, and all your new panels in a single string subject to the string capacity. To get up to 5kwh, the individual string would be required to handle 3.8 kwh, about 9 panels at 430w, so once the string can handle this you could use unbalanced strings. Assuming different roof directions though, its iikely both sets would be operating at max together, say if they are 90° different in direction.

    Once you determine your optimum string locations and string size, you can think of your new inverter. I'd assume that as all the work is done for the existing inverter, it can simply be swapped out. This should save quite a bit on installation costs, assuming breakers , cables and switches have the capacity for 5kwh to the consumer unit. As regards paperwork, I'd imagine it should be necessary to update you certification with the new approved inverter model and capacity, but I guess you're not seeking a grant as you already have a solar installation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Seventy Plus


    At the last hour I have a quote of €7,600 before Grant

    15 x 435w jinko panels 

    1 x solis 5kw hybrid inverter 

    10 x tigo optimisers

    Vander valk mounting brackets 

    BER cert

    All grant paperwork 



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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    I don't even need to do the math on that, that's a v good quote.

    So 5200 after the grant, just under €800 per kWp.

    Can you get the grant?



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Seventy Plus


    Yes I can get Grant. It took the whole day between two firms as I want to apply for grant in morning.

    I was also working on behalf of a friend.

    As Munster was mentioned it is Ulster



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    There's good competition up here. Glad to see good value for money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,654 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Just came back to report on my own situation. Last week the best quote I had was 4,700-5,000 net of grant for either 7 or 8 panels. 7 would be a 3.05kwp system. Works out at 1,566 per kwo installed which was a bit above the target of paying 1,200 per kwp installed. As I have had 10+ quotes with some as high as 8k-9k across an on-off search for months I was nearly going to go with that quote on Monday. Id resigned myself to the fact that as mine is such a small system that I was never going to hit the 1,200kwp benchmark Id hoped for.

    But despite the company ringing on Monday after a site visit the previous week and putting a bit of pressure on with the grant reducing and paperwork needing to be in before Wednesday I decided to hold off a couple of days. Then on Wednesday out of nowhere a final quote came in from a different company at only 3,700 net of grant or 1,233 per kwp installed. Spoke with them on the phone and so far all seems good so I applied for and received grant approval from the SEAI yesterday thus avoiding the 300 grant reduction coming on Jan 1st. To finally hit that 1,200/kwp benchmark after so many months of frustration was almost overwhelming. Im over the moon with it as it will give me an even faster payback period than the quote of 4,700. The grant approval is valid for 8 months so once Ive some bills out of the way in January I'll go ahead with the install in late Feb or early March just in time for the days getting longer and the sun much higher.

    Thanks to all on this thread who helped out their with invaluable advice and experience. Literally couldnt have done it without ye.



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,087 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    That's great news. It can be a struggle getting quotes, especially with the grant reduction looming.

    When all said and done(and your happy!), if anyone wants to add anyone to the installer list, PM me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,554 ✭✭✭wexfordman2


    Actually, I don't think you are being entirely unreasonable. You had a survey, and got a quote based on that professional survey, which would have included a risk assessment for the installation.

    You then agreed a price and paid a deposit, not only are you locked in, but so are they.


    To my mind, and omission is on their part, and they should have identified the risk at the time of survey, that is not your fault, the blame is entirely with them.

    They now expect remedial works to be completed which will just allow them to do the job they were paid to do in the first place, those remedial works having absolutely no benefit to you, and yet you have to pay for part of it ?


    There is also the point,.that their initial assessment included the cost of hiring a mewp, which they have now said they won't or cannot use, and have asked you to put in the additional cost, yet they also will save by not having the mewp hire costs.


    There is in fact, no fault on your side of the problem, it is entirely theirs. That's not to say dig your heels in and insist on anything, its just to say, come to a reasonable agreement, you should not have to pay beyond what was quoted, and you should be compensated in some way for the delay in install.


    Be firm, be reasonable and be fair, keep in mind the origin nal.afreement, and the losses that you are now expected to take on.


    Keep in mind the savings they will make by not having to hire a mewp also.


    And, last thing to check, was your quote before or after the point where solar installs became vat free?



  • Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭staples7


    Install complete yesterday 17 X 435w Jinkos, BER included, HUAWEI inverter. I'll follow with batteries down the line. 8 HUAWEI optimisers

    Company were great, really clean tidy install. E6300 net of grant which blew any other quote out of the water. Booking to install was about 3-4 weeks.

    The BER accessor was there during install. This company also took the grant off themselves. So the above was the only price I had to pay.

    Hard to beat that!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,404 ✭✭✭con747


    Well done! It goes to show there is still good value to be had. Best of luck with it.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Seventy Plus


    For completeness this the Quote my friend got for €10,200 before grant

    18 x 435w Jinko Tiger Panels

    5K Solis Hybrid Inverter

    5K Dyness Battery

    Eddie Diverter

    Van Der Valk mounting system

    BER included



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  • Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭Seventy Plus


    On Wednesday / Thursday



This discussion has been closed.
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