Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I see the French are not happy about a strike in Rafah which killed one of their foreign ministry staff. They have called for a ceasefire along with the UK and Germany, but these two have qualified their call. The pressure is growing. A previous contributor tried to claim it's Hamas who will have to be dragged to another ceasefire, but it's clear Bibi in order to maintain his grip on power will be reluctant to agree to another ceasefire too.

Where's our resident expert on 'international law' when you need them??

Indeed, but over time I believe many/ most came to understand and accept the plight of these peoples. People were prepared to disregard the excesses of Israeli settlements and the punitive controls on Palestinians. That much was achieved. The events of the last couple of months have been a PR disaster for Israel, the state has lost sight of the wood for the trees, so bound up are they in the red mist of 'wiping out' Hamas. We can't control our own state's policy or that of the EU but as ordinary citizens we can choose to shun in our own personal dealings in the future. Our opinions are indelibly stained.

It's important to note the context of that post, the poster specifically said that it is Israel's actions that have caused them to become repulsive to some.

The dislike of Israel is being portrayed as antisemitism, but the dislike is fundamentally routed in their recent actions as this poster specifically points out saying that until recently, they had no issue with the state.

That poster is not alone in how their sentiment has changed in recent weeks. I'm not suggesting everyone who disagrees with Israels actions want to see the destruction of the state, I know I don't. But I absolutely would like to see the destruction of the mindset that exists within the governing body of the state, that being one which is seeking to and actively participating in the destruction of Palestine.

The existence of Israel was mentioned previously in the context of apartheid era South Africa and how the destruction of that apartheid era South Africa was required, and actually happened, without the state itself disappearing.

It is in that context that I believe many are referring to the existence of Israel.

Some of the biggest critics of the Israeli state are decent Israeli people who have had enough of the carnage. They are naturally enough attacked and called "traitors to their religion" and "traitors to Israel" by the warmongers / hatemongers.

The truth comes out at the end

Netanyahu's son has new slogan on his social media account.

Do you have any evidence for this, or is it just something you believe because it suits you to believe it?

Because antisemitic hate acts have never entirely ceased, so I don't think your claim that they had good will that they have now lost is true for all. What I think happens is that levels of antisemitism have always risen and fallen thoughout history. Clearly many were shamed after the holocaust, but now they've got over it, the old habits are coming back.

That doesn't mean the Israelis have never done anything wrong - but how come nobody hates the Turks for their Armenian genocide, nor for their ongoing oppression of the Kurds? Only the Jews are susceptible to calls to "shun" them.

Even if you consider the plight of the Palestinians as more important than that of the Armenians or the Kurds, why is it the Jordanians, who killed thousands of Palestinians during "Black September" don't seem to get much hatred either - not even from Palestinians?

It all looks very one-sided to me: the Jews are subject to a different, and much more severe, judgment than everyone else. Why is that, if not antisemitism?

It's been argued that the Palestinian version can be interpreted as all Palestinians from the river to the sea would be free, as in not occupied by Israel or imprisoned (yes when Hamas supporters chant it, it's a different meaning).

But I can't see any other meaning to the Israeli version other than the extermination of the Palestinian state, Gaza and the West Bank. Like father like son. Sure it's only in the founding charter of the ruling party in Israel.

It's pretty clear how this is all playing out, yet people blindly supporting Israel either don't care for Palestinian lives or they want to wait until it's all over to see if it was indeed genocide and/or ethnic cleansing. I'm sure then they will condemn it then?

The Israeli and Hamas seem very similar in their approach to each other.

I think you'd be blind not to see that.

FIFA should treat them the same way they treated the ruSSians and ban all teams from playing

All these '' friendly'' deaths by Israel suggests they are shooting to kill, even those waving white flags, as they assume they are Palestinians

Nice traditions you have.