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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    This is something worth reminding of. Burke's ... total obstinate position came down to an antagonism towards a single student whose request was so trivial in the grand scheme of things (IIRC it was only the neutral "they" n all, hardly scandalous - and that's speaking as a non-binary sceptic). When would a teacher even need to refer to a student in the 3rd person in their orbit anyway?

    The victim in all this was the kid. Not Burke.

    A kid whose life probably became 10 times more horrible by dint of a hypocritical "Christian" whose supposed love based religion couldn't throw a teen a bone. God knows the runway all this gave to the bullies and shítheads of that school. Being a teenager was a minefield of emotion and struggle for most us - couldn't imagine doing it while grappling with your physical sense of self.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Schools for the most part, have changed. There's way more acceptance of LGBT kids and neuro-diversity than there was in my secondary school days (mid 90's).

    My brother in law came out in 4th year, through Facebook during the gay matriage referendum. We were all worried for him, but we needn't have been. His school was great and supportive and he was one of the more popular lads in his school. I was surprised as this was a country school with a heavy emphasis on the GAA.

    It's wonderful to see that acceptance programs are working and getting through to people. Even my mother in law, who has generally poo-pooed mental health and "modern illnesses", now regularly talks about ADHD, dyspraxia, autism, trans-genderism etc. She understands that the more awareness and research done on these, will lead to an increas of the numbers of people discovering them and being diagnosed.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Agree completely about the changing attitudes.

    In my sons wider peer group several people have come out at varying stages from ages 16/17 to today (he's now almost 24) and for all the reaction or change in attitude that arose they might as well have been announcing that they didn't like brussels sprouts.

    It's just not a "thing" , certainly not the way it might have been when I was a similar age 30+ years ago..

    And that's wonderful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    I can say the exact same about my daughter (27) and her group of friends.

    Agree, its wonderful to see, as I had LGBTQ friends in the 80s who couldn't tell their families, and one very close friend who took his own life when ostracized and shamed by his whole family for being gay.

    To think someone like Enoch Burke would describe him as an "abomination" just makes my blood boil.

    And now trans people are being treated the same way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭scottser


    Nice to read the comments above - thanks folks.

    There's so much shitetalk around the topic of gender that it seems only the radicals and extremists get to voice their opinions. Most people are just bewildered in this day and age why trans people have such a high incidence of self-harm, assaults on them, suicides, addictions etc because they can't get access to services, are dismissed or not believed. The likes of Burke is actively working to erode the rights of our citizens. He can rot in jail for all I care.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    That's all great to hear; I suppose I was just thinking specifically of trans (teens) cos by and large those folk are the remaining strata of LGBTQ that still struggle with social acceptance - as we know just from this forum. Am thinking that the kid at the centre of all this might be really struggling with any attention Burke's shítty behaviour might have caused - especially as mentioned trans folk are more inclined towards self harm and suicide. Acceptance might be greater but teens can still be, by and large, total àssholes to each other. While certainly seeing Burke sitting in the corridors must have been distressing for the kid.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    When would a teacher even need to refer to a student in the 3rd person in their orbit anyway?

    I see what you did there 😁

    And now trans people are being treated the same way.

    Because the knuckle-draggers generally can't get away with attacking gay people any more so they had to find another target.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    There are a certain cohort who have to have someone to hate and to blame for everything they perceive as wrong in the world.

    The target changes , but the hate remains the same.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,329 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Yep, and when trans is widely accepted they'll move on to some other target.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    My youngest daughter has a good friend in school who is trans teen and has being so good during the last year to her over being in and out of hospital having surgery and all her year in school treat they the same as every other student, young people are so clued in nowadays. Burke’s **** behaviour is more about him and his family, every time I think back to the stunt they pulled at that poor girl’s inquest in Mayo over her death during Covid says all that needs to know about that family. How in any one’s right mind was excepting that stunt and the family in grief over losing a child. What Burke needs is the judiciary to stand up and make an example of them in court for all the contempt.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,648 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yes that was disgusting and there was nothing the poor bereaved family could do about it either.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Mammy Burke has turned her sights on Judge Maire Whelan, a friend of the gay Taoiseach Leo who appointed her to the bench, which Michael Martin described as a disgrace, and is trampling her son's Christian constitutional rights because he wont call a boy a girl. She wants Judge Whelan got rid of by Michael. The Burke PR video was filmed outside the 4 courts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭DUBLINIRL


    This man is sitting in prison, in my opinion, as a result of brain washing done by his parents. He was homeschooled until the leaving cert and never really experienced other opinions so he could have a think about things and come to his own conclusions.

    Most members of his family are now experiencing many issues interacting with society to the detriment of all the hard work they have put in to educate themselves and obtain good qualifications and make a good life for themselves.

    I can't imagine any employer who would take a chance on them now and they wil even have to go to extra lengths to make sure they can justify why the Burke applicant was not the most suitable candidate.

    At this stage, with more news having come out about his upbringing I do think Enoch is a victim, mainly of his mother's teachings.

    I don't have a solution to this problem but surely it can't be letting him sit in prison.

    A lifetime of brain washing can't be overcome by "do what I tell you or go back to prison". He has been conditioned not to compromise.

    For a long while this was funny watching the latest developments but now a man is sitting in prison and I don't think he will give in. As a society how long are we going to lock him up for if what he plans to do is stand on a footpath? I have no reason to think he is a danger to anyone so let the man out. If he steps back on school property now that is a crime so lock him up for that but if he stays on a public footpath or the side of the road then leave him there. Has he at any point since being dismissed from the school tried to interact with the student in question?

    I'm just trying to figure out why we are paying to lock this man up considering it costs over €80k per year and as far as I can tell he is just some eejit standing outside a gate.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Keeping him outside the gate requires an expensive security operation as he attempts to enter the room he is still convinced is "his classroom" it he can

    He disrupts the education of ~400 pupils when he does enter the premises, as he did frequently.

    Also, it needs to be clear that contempt of court is punished. So in prison he stays, and should stay until he clears his contempt. If that's never, so be it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    Because we live in a society, and we play by the rules of the society. One of which is respecting courts and the judicial process.

    If he doesn't want to partake in society, that's his choice. As is leaving prison whenever he wants.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Will Mammy Burke be more explosive or less explosive when she finds out that Whelan was actually the nominee of Labour rather than gay Taoiseach and then Minister of Health or Transport Leo?



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭DUBLINIRL


    So you don't care about the possibility of this person being brain washed (I should find a better term... mentally conditioned) by a parent over 18+ years which might have impaired his ability to make rational decisions?

    Do you think he is a danger to society?



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They absolutely hate Labour and rant about other labour connections a lot.

    Lots of the social change they fought against was pushed by Labour which would contribute to that.

    The icing on the cake is that Wilson's barrister is former Labour TD and Senator Alex White.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 36,306 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    Prove it. Cos whatever upbringing he had he's a grown adult and as such is being treated like one. If there's a suggestion of cult behaviour, or cognitive impairment then that's for social services, friends or relatives to forward.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Are you proposing the state forcefully provides cult deprogramming here?

    He is in contempt of court, so needs to stay in prison until he clears it - that's the only matter here.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I don't care one jot about this particular individual.

    If it leads to more inspections on home schoolers, that would be a good thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭Ezeoul


    What about the young LGBTQ students who have to enter and leave the school every day, passing by this bigot who stands at the gate of their school, objecting to their very existance?

    Don't forget, this is a man who not only refuses to follow court orders, but refuses to acknowledge his students' rights under the Equal Status Acts. He also claims homosexuality to be an abomination and has linked it paedophilia. He has harassed LGBTQ politicians in the past, including Katherine Zappone (whom he accused of approving of witchcraft) and Senator David Norris.

    So no, this man is not gormless eejit standing on the side of the road, and he is not harmless. He and his family have thrown thousands of euros into their various campaigns against rights for LGBTQ people since 2010.

    And again, the only reason he is in prison now, is because of his refusal to follow a High Court injunction telling him to stay away from the school. He could walk free tomorrow, if he agreed to follow that.

    The Court hasn't ordered him to do anything else, and this is not because of his beliefs, but his actions.

    As for his mammy issues, he is a grown man in his mid 30s. He went to college. He has earned several degrees. He lived away from his family home for the years he was teaching in WHS. The age were he could continue to use his parents influence as an excuse for his behaviour, passed a long time ago.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,344 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Everyone is a product of their upbringing. If it were the case that he could get special treatment because he may (or may not) have been brainwashed by his parents then where do you stop. Its ok to ignore the courts if it seems that you were reared to defy authority and break the law?

    Maybe eventually it will be considered appropriate to perform some sort of invasive treatment to make people law-abiding regardless of their upbringing, but in the meantime we have to assume that, provided insanity is not an issue, then people are responsible for their own behaviour.

    I do feel sorry for him, rather than wanting him punished, but he is a member of society, and has shown that he can live as a reasonable member of society whatever his beliefs and must be responsible for himself.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,875 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    There was an item on This Week today with some interesting comments from Prof. O'Connell.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭DUBLINIRL


    I get the point that everyone is a product of their upbringing so if an exception is made for Enoch where does it end.

    I think it is a shame because he doesn't seem like a bad person he is just repeating what his mother taught him and it has landed him in jail and basically destroyed his profession and landed him with huge fines.

    I don't know what the solution is but it doesn't seem right to leave an irrational man in prison when he doesn't pose a risk to society.

    I don't think that everyone has to accept another person's religion or sexuality or choice of favourite football team otherwise they go to prison.

    If a person is not hired because of a number of criteria including religion and sexuality that is a civil matter, nobody goes to prison.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The level of personalised attacks he has made on various people make him a bad person.

    Your last line falls back on the absolute untruth that he is in prison because of his objections to "transgenderism". That has nothing to do with it, and if you believe it does your are basing your entire viewpoint on a lie.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien


    I don't think that everyone has to accept another person's religion or sexuality or choice of favourite football team othwrwise they go to prison.

    Comparing someone's sexuality to someone's favourite football team is a pretty odious thing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭DUBLINIRL


    You're missing the point.

    Nobody should go to prison because they don't agree with someone being gay because of some religious belief they acquired through their parents.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,560 ✭✭✭✭L1011




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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,026 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    If a man in his thirties can’t think freely for himself and as you say Acquired by his parents, and you think nobody like him should go to prison for all the shite they have caused in court, the mistake that has being made with him he should be in the open end of prison and get a little bit of real life. By the way which one of the Burkes have we got tonight.



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