Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

Yes we don't. I said 'if ' .

Not the central point of the post though .

As is mine .

Just another side to Hitler's Germany..which yes , YOU brought to the discussion , not me .

There was a creeping awareness over time to many that were happily carrying on their daily lives and it didn't suit to see the dark side of what they as a nation had allowed in to govern them .

You are trying to relate it I think to our present government .

Show where we have thuggish criminal behaviour then instigated by our present government?

Nothing has been done remotely anywhere near Hitler's government by our own, the opposite in fact .

But if you look at it the type of government people here are espousing which would be more on the lines of more controls on immigration , sending people home with no respect for international law or treaties , harsher treatment of agencies and people catering for minorities , supporting thuggish burning and persecution of said minorities.

This , as @lumphammer2 said earlier in an excellent post , would not stop there until we have a complete reversal of the last 20 years of equality legislation

You are joking surely if you cannot see the parallels.

Yes but I blame all of the cabinet for the poor policy, poor planning and poor communication. Especially the experienced ministers. FF and FG don't get off light on this one as far as I am concerned. The Greens only have 12 seats and most of them are one hit wonders. Everything is sanctioned by cabinet and they never intervened with anything O'Gorman did. He should have been replaced long ago by a senior hurler from FFG but they are too cowardly. The 2 Simon's are doing Mickey Mouse jobs in their sleep with their eye on the FG prize.

Even O'Gormans department is a complete scapegoating exercise by FFG. It used to be called the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs. Nice small simple portfolio for a first time TD. But now they have lobbed on "Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth". All over the shop. Nobody in real charge. Eamonn Ryan should have refused that hospital pass. No no, I am not naive enough to see the stroke FFG are playing here.

That gobdaw Minister for Housing seems to get away Scot free for example.

O'Gorman will likely lose his seat. All the blame will be wasted then. FFG laughing at us.

Depends on whose game your playing to see this as a win. For the protesters and those that do not want AS in their community, the destruction of the hotel, putting a permanent end to the question over it, is quite obviously a win. Whoever did it will likely get away with it too, as there are unlikely to be any forensics and no one will talk.

Taking the media view, such obvious destructive hostility to AS will see them be painted as having lost - they will be racist xenophobes.

All the discussion about this seems to dance around the actual issue though - with all sorts of red herrings being pulled out: pressure on services, too isolated, fire safety (ironically) etc. the real issue is that shipping in large numbers of idle men from foreign cultures (of whom many don't get along with) will profoundly change the character of any community in which they are placed. Most communities in which these accommodation centres are proposed are settled and work well. They do not want change. Others, particularly our media, scoff at remarks like "I don't recognise my town anymore" as dimwitted racism, and dismiss their concerns out of hand.

Ultimately, the failure here is to sell the change - and it's a hard sell, because I cannot see any community dividend for hosting these centres.

The government have a problem on their hands that's only going to get bigger. Inaction will lead to radicalisation so they actually need to move on this. The atmosphere around the topic is starting to change though.

No the burden needs to be eased by taking in less numbers.

Local services has been subsidised in small towns since forever. These tax monies are a basic of survival - they are not there to be politicised and linked to a system of bribes/punishments. The point of this spending is maintaining national cohesion, which is why Dubs (like me) accept net-negative spending for the capital. (Though I would like to see rejuvenation of D1 sometime).

The refugee policy is controversial as it is. If you take dictatorial-like action to force it through even more then that is both avoiding the issue and making the issue worse. It is shoring up trouble for the future.

Many people need to come out of the bubble of arrogance they are in. Not just the Minister for Disintegration but low-level officials, bureaucrats, members of the professional classes, charities etc. You're really flying against the wind on this one.

This isn't the first time I've seen this nonsense out of you, are you proposing Ireland break off into 80 sovereign states and each town fend for itself financially? Have you an issue with democracy? Do people these villages not pay taxes? Does their vote count in elections?

Yes, all of the above is true and equally, rural areas need to support the asylum process also.

It wouldnt be fair to house all asylum seekers in urban areas only and leave all of the rural areas untouched.

Thats my point. Shared responsibility.

The Immigration system wasn't set up so local communities could pick and choose if they were wanted to get involved either. A fair solution needs to be found and if local communities need subsidies to survive they need to accept that they might have to abid by certain conditions to get those free subsidies. I hardly think that's particularly unfair to expect.

I've never once mentioned collective punishment. I'm taking about collective decision making and collective responsibility for local communities. The freedom to do as the local community want with even greater autonomy.

Yes, I mean the proposal was the property tax raised was to be ring fenced for local authorities within that area. I don't see why a system of ring fencing further taxes raised within a community is such a bad thing.

Because the local property tax does not cover all costs for services in local areas, especially rural ones.

The folks that live in rural Mayo or Galway are not covering the cost of the services they receive, they are being bank rolled by central govt to cover the shortfalls.

Communication is vitial and that has to happen. The govt have done a poor job on that front.

I dont think many would argue with that.

But rural areas cannot just absolve their responsibilities by burning down property.

Commiting criminal damage isnt the answer and I would expect the govt will ensure those asylum seekers still goto the local area, so as not to send a message to all that people can set fire to buildings and avoid the asylum seekers being housed in their locale.

disagree. The white paper online promising everything for everyone will mean folks as in economic migrants will keep coming here.

I agree that O'Gorman is completely at sea in his post. It's a near certainty that when the Greens sought this post they didn't think it was going to be so contentious - which when aligned with their AS policy shows a stunning naivety. Not withstanding the pressures induced by the war in Ukraine, O'Gormans advertised policy of own door accommodation was alway going to be seen as an invite to the world to come here.

What will happen now is pressure on homeless services in another urban location , services which have been ringfenced till now , and you will see the same " protestors " bleating about the amount of people sleeping rough over Christmas ...its so hypocritical and grating .