Home heating options for a new build rural bungalow

onrail · 30-09-2023 2:49pm #1

I'm finalising construction drawings for a new build with my architect and it has come to the issue of heating before we're ready for issue.

As I understand it, the standard (easy) approach solution is an A2W heat pump with underfloor heating but anecdotal reports of electricity bills is really putting me off. Plenty of people saying that a heat pump is a better solution than oil, and it's only one combined bill, but the €1,000-1,500 winter electricity bills people are reporting seem insane. I also hear that much depends on the quality of the installation and airtightness - but I've no confidence in myself to oversee the install quality.

I haven't done exact sums yet, but there is no way that my spend on oil/electricity (supplemented by a couple of wood-burning stoves) in my current 80's bunglow comes anywhere close. Sure the place mightn't be 100% comfortable in the depths of winter, but 90% is fine when I'm saving a couple of grand a year.

Is there a definitive guide on what alternatives might be feasible? I hear oil with a significant amount of Solar PV might meet regs? Would any form of wood burning boiler be worth the hassle? I've a farm full of trees close to falling that would be a nice renewable energy source.

I haven't completely abandoned the idea of A2W, but it would be good to have a thorough understanding of my options and the real costs involved.

Hardyspicer90 · 01-10-2023 9:09pm

I'm in the exact same situation as yourself, rural bungalow build, not convinced by A2W.

I have just posted a similar question here, might be of help to you if I get some replies.

Thanks

onrail · 01-10-2023 10:28pm

Thanks. My head is melted trying to get an answer!

embracingLife · 01-10-2023 10:51pm

I saw similar in the paper awhile ago and recently a plumber mentioned it somewhere online that I can't remember now. Anyway electric bill for heat pumps are very high and costs more than the benefits compared to oil & gas.

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/letters/letters-citizens-are-fooled-by-electric-pump-claims-as-bills-heat-up/a1644731041.html

keno-daytrader · 04-10-2023 1:24pm

Built 2 years ago, installed A2W heatpump with ufh both floors. House 210sqm. 1st year heating costing were around 230 euros second year around 270 euros. Heat on 21.5 downstairs and on from Nov to March.

Get insulation, cold bridging and airtightness right and to me A2W is a no brainer.

Calahonda52 · 04-10-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058316166/home-heating-options-for-a-new-build-rural-bungalow

What is the heat-loss indicator from the provisional BER?

What is the air tightness figure that will be spec'ed in the tender drawings?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121193194#Comment_121193194

💪

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183072#Comment_121183072

Misinformation in that rag, trying to undermine.

The critical piece, once its designed, installed, commissioned properly in a properly spec'ed house is that the home owner knows exactly how much elec the heat pump uses per day, via separate metering so as any faults are picked up because if the compressor stops for whatever reason, the inbuilt elec elements for back up will click in at a COP of 1.

embracingLife · 05-10-2023 2:56pm

👍👍

andyd12 · 11-10-2023 10:47pm

Agreed on the insulation, cold bridging and air tightness. Get them nailed down through a good engineer or builder.

People paying 1000-1500 overlooked the above

Wildly Boaring · 11-10-2023 11:00pm

Also oil prices are only going one way for next 20 or 30 years.

Rural bungalow gas plenty roof, garage and even garden space for PV. Up front costs now could have you with cheap heating on into the future

onrail · 17-12-2023 11:33am

@Hardyspicer90 have you had many replies?

I'm still a little bit conflicted, plus I heard recently that the standard A2W units shouldn't be installed in coastal areas.

Would installing oil&ufh with the intention of retrofitting A2W later be feasible I wonder?

Rows Grower · 17-12-2023 11:49am

Did a build 15 years ago, oil underfloor downstairs, multi fuel stove with back boiler heating four 7 foot rads upstairs and the towel rads in main bathroom and ensuites. One solar panel heating hot water only.

The main key to success is don't try and save money on insulation, especially beneath the underfloor heating but everywhere else is also very important. You'll get one shot off it so make it count. We are very rural here but if the youngfella ran up and down the hall he'd nearly heat the house.

hydrus21 · 17-12-2023 3:22pm

Was thinking of solar for hot water only.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505429#Comment_121505429

Are you happy with the design?

Presumably a 12v immersion.

onrail · 17-12-2023 4:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121505429#Comment_121505429

Ah yeah, I'm going direct labour out of financial necessity, so definitely going to spend some of the savings on insulation. PIR board all around is the best I presume?

I'd say you're spending very little on oil, wood and coal over the year?

Problem for anyone building now is that it seems to be very difficult under the regs to put in anything other than a heat pump

Rows Grower · 17-12-2023 4:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506047#Comment_121506047

Very happy with the set up. We don't use an immersion, the solar panel will usually on the dullest of days take the water in the dual coil cylinder up to 7 degrees we just stick on the oil condenser boiler then for a short while and it costs very little to take it from 7 degrees to hot.

Rows Grower · 17-12-2023 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506332#Comment_121506332

We used 100mm Kingspan in the foundation and then the fibreglass wool insulation everywhere else, it's timber frame so all internal walls are packed and we packed in between the 9" ceiling joists as well. We like to have a fire lighting even if the back boiler is not switched on just for a cosy atmosphere but even at that a ton of coal or ovoids goes a long way, the oil man calls about once a year when the price is low. I have timber locally but usually get a couple of ton bags delivered once a year.

Charles Babbage · 17-12-2023 5:31pm

I am not expert on this. However, it seems to me that in a new build in the countryside that a ground source heat pump is a possibility. The running costs of this should be less and in cold weather it would be more effective.

Solar is better value every year and again easy to install at the build stage.

In any case insulate the bejaysus out of the place, it will stay there a long time and will make the place cosier in any case.

Furze99 · 17-12-2023 6:07pm

Neighbour, rural area, has the heat pump in ground system a good few years. What I hear is that it works well but also that it's a bit like the windfarms when there's no wind, you need backup when the weather gets cold and/or cool/windy etc

andyd12 · 18-12-2023 11:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121506744#Comment_121506744

Why would you need backup to a ground source heat pump when cold?

Charles Babbage · 19-12-2023 12:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512199#Comment_121512199

Exactly, a ground system should be little affected by the weather, as it draws its heat from the ground. Perhaps something like the moisture content might have an effect, but not the wind.

MicktheMan · 19-12-2023 1:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512540#Comment_121512540

Perhaps the issue isn't on the heat generation side of the equation but rather on the house heat loss side; i.e. when the weather is colder the heat losses from the house increase enough that the GSHP can't cope (for whatever reason such as hp is poorly set up or incorrectly sized etc)

andyd12 · 19-12-2023 10:19pm

That would be case with any heating source.

It's all about fabric first

Charles Babbage · 19-12-2023 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121512594#Comment_121512594

As Andyd12 said, the fabric may not be up to scratch, the wind should not be driver of the inside temperature. Which is why it is important for the OP to ensure good insulation etc and the sizing a heat pump becomes feasible.

_Puma_ · 22-12-2023 12:35am

For a new build aim for Passive/solar gain then go in order. Size, Orientation, Build method and thermal mass will all come into it and determine how far down you will need to go in this list.

Insulation->Airtightness membrane -> Heat Recovery ->PV-> Electric Heating ->Solid Fuel -> Heat pump (air) -> Heat pump (ground source) -> Gas -> Oil.

sydthebeat · 22-12-2023 9:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121524695#Comment_121524695

That list makes zero sense.

Where did you come up with it?

BryanF · 31-12-2023 1:28pm

Is there any of the house builders here, getting heat loss calculation prepared, as part of heat solution / selection? From the likes of passivhaus?

Home heating options for a new build rural bungalow

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