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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    Never mind water cannons the its the PC9s time to shine



  • Registered Users Posts: 240 ✭✭mupper2


    Looks like Law & order will stop being the issue no one wants to talk about now...who'll want to be called enabler of what we're watching tonight



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Sadly I force a whole lot of screaming about “unvetted migrants” and little about thugs kicking off and looting shops long after the incident.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Nope. There's nobody shooting anyone, bringing the army out would give the fash exactly what they want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    It took AGS several hours to get reinforcements to Dublin last night. With the current staffing issues on the Defence Forces I wonder how long it would take to get troops from the country to Dublin.

    This quote from Berry will be used by the Defence Forces I would say to try keep Cathal Brugha away from the LDA

    Thankfully, the Cathal Brugha Barracks are still open, you could station troops there if need be," he added.





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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    People,

    Get a grip, a few feral criminal scum using a far right call to arms as an excuse to wreck a small area of the centre of the nations capital is no justification for sending in the Army.

    The public order are perfectly well equipped to deal with incidents of this nature, the issue here being the speed at which it escalated.

    There were thirty odd oxygen thieves in the district court this morning as a result of last night, they'll be back in court in January wondering why their moment of madness ruined their christmas, and binned all their holiday plans for 2024.

    It wasn't even close to what we saw during the reclaim the streets protests, or even the Shell to sea shower.

    Don't give them the oxygen of publicity by even suggesting the Army was required. Even when an angry mob burned down the british embassy, the army were there, but not required.

    Only tinpot dictatorships bring the army onto the streets to control petty crime.


    If the Brugha closed tomorrow all the soldiers in there would move either to McKee or Baldonell. still well within the city. You wouldnt have to go to "the country" for army reinforcements.

    It was a few tracker knackers doing their Christmas shoplifting, no more.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Absolutely 100% correct.

    Besides, there was absolutely zero prospect of that happening on Thursday night, because, if it HAD happened, it would have amounted to Harris admitting that he had lost control, and his resignation would have been handed to him.

    So really he was protecting McEntee as well as himself.

    As it is, I think they will both have to resign before the month is out. I'm afraid those photo opportunities taken in the summer (after the American tourist assault) and their assurances that all was safe and well, will be the rock they perish on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    The safety, or lack of it, of Dublin's city centre is not something that happened on either Drew or the ministers watch. Is been this way for quite a while (possibly since the closure of Clerys). I was with colleagues one evening either in 2013 or 2014 at the Grand Central, our seats looked onto Abbey Street/O'Connell Street. Outside, the usual wombles gathered fighting with each other & passers by. The Mobile garda station was parked outside the GPO at this time. One of the Homeless charities came along, after some negotiation, shared what food they had brought evenly among the gathered, and moved on, after which point an all out brawl kicked off, 7pm of a tuesday or wednesday evening. "Ordinary people" entered the Grand Central for safety until it died down. When we got the luas from Abbey st, it was almost mandatory to find some crowd having a brawl of some sort outside Jervis. We usually stayed around Parnell Square when we had to visit dublin, and took our evening meal somewhere on O'Connell st. The advantage with there being if there was some brawl happening, the street is wide enough you can cross, to avoid the brawl, or head down Henry st and loop around. In the end we gave up on Parnell Square and sourced hotel rooms south of the river instead.

    If I'm coming to town for a concert, I'll drive up, stay southside, park in a nearby multi story (where all concert attendees are using) and drive away immediately after. Nobody is going to the city centre any more. My Niece works in Blackrock, Lives in Clontarf. Never socialises in the city, apart from the occasional concert.

    The city centre is somewhere only tourists visit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Doesn't matter. If it comes to a head on their watch - and in the post Covid era it really has - then they carry the can.

    Even accepting your argument, there have been Fine Gael Justice Ministers for the last 12 years, so its on their watch corporately speaking.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Ireland's lack of sonar forced British navy to chase Russian sub away from Cork Harbour (irishexaminer.com)

    This is wild. So many inaccuracies in one article.

    No ship has ASW sonar between 1970 and 1984, and Eithne's sonar didn't last long in service.

    The Vampires entered service in the 1950s, and retured in the 1970s, being replaced with aircraft of similar ability, the Fouga Magister, which served until the early 2000s.

    12 miles south of the entrance to Cork harbour is still International waters, and not our problem. If the RN choose to drop sonobouys, that's their gig. However:

    Under part IV of UNCLOS, coastal states enjoy an ‘Exclusive Economic Zone’ (EEZ) out to 200 nautical miles from their coast, with enforcement jurisdiction over economic activities therein. This includes regulatory control of fishing activities, hydrocarbon exploration, and any other natural resources in the water or below the seabed (article 56).

    As such, the coastal state can, insofar as UNCLOS provides, prevent activities that impinge on its ability to enjoy economic access exclusively within these waters. This right of exclusivity is balanced, however, by the fact that the oceans beyond territorial waters, including the EEZ itself, are considered a part of the high seas – one of the least regulated regions left on the planet.

    The high seas are, by definition, a space over which no state can exercise sovereignty, where ‘the freedom of the high seas’ reigns supreme (article 89). This concept of high-seas freedom has prevailed for centuries – more recently being committed to text so as to include express freedoms within UNCLOS.

    These include freedom of navigation and overflight, and the freedom to lay submarine cables or pipelines, and are enjoyed by all states regardless of their location, even within the EEZ of another state. Further freedoms are either unenumerated or implied through specific exclusion.

    None are absolute – every high-seas freedom is balanced and bordered by the freedoms and rights of others. It is in this context that one must consider the legal implications of recent (and, indeed, future) military manoeuvres off the Irish coast.

    Military exercises in Ireland’s EEZ (lawsociety.ie)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    I woulsnt mind but he left out the fact that the Fouga Fleet carried Exocet missiles



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    It's a bit alarming that they are able to encroach close to the national only naval base and only oil refinery.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,321 ✭✭✭thomil


    Not really that unusual, just google what the US Navy did during the Cold War as part of Operation Holystone, effectively parking one or more of their SSNs right outside the entrance to Kola Bay. The Russians weren't above returning the favour either, as the collision of the USS James Madison and a Soviet submarine in or near the Clyde in 1974, or the disabling of another soviet sub of the coast of South Carolina in 1983 show. Neither were neutral countries off-limits, as the 1982 Harsflärden Incident in Sweden show. And all of those countries had, and still have, significantly more effective ASW capabilities than Ireland.

    What IS worrying is that this time, the incident occurred off the coast of a neutral country that poses no real threat to Russia. Sweden, even when it was still neutral in the 1980s, was seen as a real threat by the soviets on account of their strategic position controlling the entrance to the Baltic and a rather robust military posture that was aimed squarely at the USSR. Ireland has none of that and while the article above might include the odd flight of fancy, Ireland's continued inability and unwillingness to address its anemic defense policy is a real problem in my eyes.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Shipboard Guards Exchanged Fire with Attackers in Latest Red Sea Incident (gcaptain.com)

    Ardmore Shipping are an Irish Based company, who's head office is in Cork. Their ships have often carried cadets from NMCI.

    Ardmore Shipping | Product & Chemical Tankers



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Seems to be quite the uptick in piracy around the Arabian peninsula of late.

    If only we had the spare capacity to send a ship, or MSA to join Operation Atalanta. It would provide invaluable experience to the crew and to the operational management capability of the naval service.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    Given its escalated to Burkes and FREMMs intercepting hostile missiles, I think anything we have might be more a liability than a help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    Indeed....The NS needs a decent frigate or corvette with ASW AAW kit on board and a citadel etc if they want to come out to play with the big boys who have a proper navy not a coast guard.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    True however we could at least send one of ours to the med, so one of the More capable warships already there could be sent where their capabilities are more useful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster




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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭jonnybigwallet


    A few of them would come in handy to increase the lethality of our feeble defence forces.



  • Registered Users Posts: 319 ✭✭Grassy Knoll


    confirming the BLOCK 4 ruin is being rebuilt at Haulbowline. Nice pic of the P71s



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    Former flagship of Irish Naval Service to be scrapped (rte.ie)

    RTE Catches up with something happening outside dublin.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭roadmaster


    On the plus listening to the cllr they interviewed it looks like they got advice on what it takes to run a museum ship



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,953 ✭✭✭sparky42


    And they listened to it. I might also point out that such concerns were raised by many posters here, maybe we should get a bit of commission?🤣



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't know about you Sparky, but I was on the Commission!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,173 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    The US is to lead a multinational Naval task force to keep the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden open for commercial traffic.

    The force will counter missile strikes coming from rebel Houthi forces in Yemen.

    Operation Prosperity Guardian will bring together assets from the US, Canada, UK, France, Italy, Norway, the Netherlands, Spain, Bahrain and the Seychelles Republic. Command and control will be from the US Navy HQ, Middle East, at Bahrain.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,468 ✭✭✭Dohvolle


    What Ireland "could" do now is take over in places where these ships were, often carrying out duties where their colour was the only sophisticated weaponry was required, freeing up the ships with the means to combat drone and pirate attacks for this important mission.

    Most of the world is unaware just how important a free flowing Bab-el-Mandeb is to world trade. Yes some carriers have chosen to avoid it and round the horn instead, adding 5 days to their journey. A cost they wil of course pass on to their clients, who will in turn pass it onto their clients etc.

    All the oil from the Gulf states going to the Med or Europe.

    Every Container coming from China or india.

    All the new EVs being produced for BMW in China, any vehicle made in Japan or Korea.

    Oh, for those suggesting Panama, that's also choked due to a water shortage, and they are about managing 25 ships a day, with a wait time of up to 3 weeks. The number making the passage may drop further in coming months it is feared.

    I expect the Houthi are about to reach the FO part of FAFO.



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