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Random EV thoughts.....

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    It’s not a €25k then. It’s a €27k car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,045 ✭✭✭CoBo55


    He could do a Johnny Cash on it, get it from the factory, it's cheaper that way😉



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,571 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Do the high powered chargers charge you more if your car can't take the max speed of the charge or do you just get charged for what it actually gets



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,757 ✭✭✭Buddy Bubs


    You get charged for the amount of electricity you use at them. Although the fast ones do generally charge more per unit of electricity than the slower ones, you pay for convenience. You dont get charged for time spent at them if that's what you mean



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    In general they are more expensive but if you’re taking 80kw and the car beside you is taking 235kw, you are both charged the same rate per kWh.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,134 ✭✭✭innrain


    I think the question stems from the fact that due to load balancing one gets 75kW and they get charged full HPC rate. Similarly CHAdeMO users pay HPC prices while their car can't get the benefit of >100 kW speeds. That's in the ecars network



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,425 ✭✭✭JohnC.


    Kia to unveil their “Purpose Built Vehicle” lineup next month. That means platforms that can be large or small vans, minibus, shuttle bus, etc and one even listed as a robo-taxi.





  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭kabakuyu




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    “I bought an electric car this year. It has collapsed in value. I don’t regret buying it but now feel like a mug“

    https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/adrian-weckler-why-bright-sparks-who-switched-to-electric-cars-as-i-did-are-in-a-state-of-shock/a1938995792.html



  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 6,080 Mod ✭✭✭✭graememk


    🙄

    " I bought a new car and it depreciated a lot"

    No sh*t Sherlock. Have people not bought new cars before?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    There’s probably a lot of (silly) people out there who thought an EV would be an appreciating asset based on the last few years of madness//chip shortages.. (or certainly not depreciate to the level they are currently depreciating at) … and the 2nd hand EV bubble would never burst… whereas in reality things have just returned to normal….

    I put in 4 Trade in requests with Tesla to see what they’d offer me (although I had very little intention of trading up)

    The car is a 2020 SR+ (bought for €48k in March 2020)

    Nov 2020 - 16,000km - €37,000

    Feb 2022 - 48,500km - €39,620

    Aug 2022 - 63,700km - €43,895

    Sept 2023 - 83,464km - €19,500

    That last one is just a ‘we don’t want your trade in’ offer, which is fair enough, but they were offering me €44k (when a new RWD cost €54k) just over a year ago, and just before they dropped the new price to €40k….

    It was bonkers out there for a while!!!

    Post edited by AndyBoBandy on


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Lets be honest the main reason most will buy an EV is to save money, its cheap to run on night rate electricity, no real maintenance, solar, they are frugal people etc but if it's depreciating by 15k in one year, you ain't saving €300 a week on diesel/petrol and the whole reason to buy an EV is now gone out the window and then you have its drawbacks like having to stop every 2 -3 hours on the motorway to charge the thing.

    If the savings aren't there, what's the point, better to keep your older diesel/petrol



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    New RWD M3 is 41.8K for basic white.



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    The word is out alright and the bubble is burst it seems and it would be all fine and the same as ICE but except for 2 big factors ( warranty and crashes )

    When the Tesla is out of warranty and the ICE is out of warranty, they are not equivalent at all, your not going to find someone easily in many parts of the country that will fix your battery cheaply and check the 7000 cells for a bad one if its given issues, you'll probably just have to buy a whole new battery from Tesla in most cases, ditto the inverter, electric motors, transmission and all those parts, the skillset isn't here for now like ICE mechanics, it will be one day but its not now

    Other big factor is if you have a tip in the Tesla, the cost to repair an ICE if you have a tip can be pretty reasonable, lots of experience around, the cost of repairing a crashed EV is more often than not a new car, understandably with high voltage, leakage, chemicals, fire risk etc very few want to work on them and the ones that do that are highly skilled ain't cheap, and then know one likes to deal with insurance companies here when you got to tell them your car has been written off and its your fault.

    The incentive to buy an EV has always been low running cost to most and if that's gone with depreciation, its hard to know what's going to happen now, something will have to change to make them more attractive

    I want an EV myself, but only thing stopping me is price and warranty. Price is almost there, we are very close to getting a Golf size car for 25k with a 60kWh battery. If I buy one, I want one that will do me for a long time and thus warranty is a big issue, 8 years/160km is way too low. I would do that 160km in 5 years and I ain't risking the repair bills of an out of warranty EV. Sustainability wise they need to offer 10 years/300k km warranties or the like, have people keeping cars for a long time, but then manufacturers run out of people to sell them and go out of business. The government facilitate that throwaway car mentality with the grants too, it should be a once off grant, not as many times as you want like now and people trading up perfectly good cars every 2 -3 years, but they do that in part because of warranty.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,542 ✭✭✭wassie


    Need to remember basic vehicle warranty differs from battery warranty.

    Tesla battery warranty is fairly long and 8 years is more than reasonable. You wont get that cover on an engine.

    There is also evidence showing Tesla batteries are proving to be quite durable even with frequent supercharging.

    Appreciate repairs can be more complex, but when it comes to 'tips', most competent auto repairers can manage that. Had a couple of people hit me both back and front in my Model 3 requiring bumpers to be repaired and resprayed. Wasnt any more hassle than any other car - higher cost was associated with premium paint.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    I would add superior powertrain and refinement and no smells as major reason why EVs are better. And the fact that you never need to go near a petrol/charging station for your normal driving.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    Luckily enough the 7000 cells on old Teslas come in 16 modules, so just replace the one affected. You don't need to guess either as the diagnosis tells you exactly where the issue is. As for the lack of skills: The mechanics will need to upskill similarly when the steam engines were replaced with diesel and carburettors with fuel injection.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,680 ✭✭✭MojoMaker


    Gammon is indulging in whataboutery @sh81722 and he'll just beat you with experience.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Also worth pointing out that Tesla "basic" white is a multi coat pearl colour. Compared to say BMW, Alpine White which is flat. I've had both, in fact, still have the flat Alpine White BMW G30. The Pearl is noticeably better IMO. I like white cars though.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Maybe independent electrical engineering places go to that level, but Tesla don't in my experience. I know 2 people who got new packs ( Model S + 3 ), they didnt pay because it was under warranty but out of warranty it was 10k+ for the 3

    Why didn't Tesla just change the modules if that was so easy?



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    No arguments from me on that, fully agree. Petrol station part isn't a big deal to me though, takes 2 mins



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    Why didn't Tesla just change the modules if that was so easy?

    Because for Tesla, it's infinitely easier & faster to just replace the entire pack, to get the customer back on the road asap... Then the old pack gets sent off to be inspected and either fixed/re-furbed or recycled..... but crucially while there's no one waiting for it....


    Now for me, an out of warranty customer, if I had issues and Tesla's fast solution was a €20k new battery and I'm back on the road tomorrow then thats awesome, but if I don't have €20k in my back pocket, I might be more inclined to go the slower but cheaper route with an independent specialist...



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    From a Manufacturers point of view, they wont replace cells. Nissan done the same with a Leaf taxi recently. Quoted €14k for a battery or thereabouts when it was one cell that died. Id go straight to HB Denis on the Airport Road in Dublin or John Earls Motors in Rathnew. Both specialise in EV/PHEV/Hybrid repairs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    Tesla does the same at the factory level, i.e. the refurbed Model S 85 kWh batteries contain used modules from failed 85 kWh battery packs. The modules that show water ingress, which was the fault that killed them in masse, are crushed while the good ones are used in the refurb packs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 22,419 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Takes 2 minutes if you're already at the petrol station or you usually do your shopping at a petrol station... takes a lot longer if you have to actually go out of your way to drive to one, fill up, then queue to pay, and then drive back

    Its not the end of the world, but if I had to fill up the car before dropping the kids to school, I'd need to leave 20 minutes earlier to arrive at the school at the same time, to account for getting to the petrol station and the extra traffic and queuing that involved.

    I would put around 40 euros a time into the car and would end up doing that at least once if not twice a week



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,123 ✭✭✭sh81722


    I don't know what it was but I just plain hated going to the petrol station unless it was a start of the holidays just before hitting the ferry. On the longer trips hitting the petrol station was normally pleasant enough experience as it broke the journey. But pumping diesel in the tank is never a very clean experience and the fact that you have to stay with the vehicle while doing it sucks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,341 ✭✭✭✭AndyBoBandy


    I've to put Diesel in my ICE this week and I'm dreading it.... (just the fcuking hassle of it all)

    And the only reason I need to do it is because we are going away next week, so I usually drive to my mothers who then drops us to the airport and keeps the car til we're back, but she won't take the Tesla because it's too futuristic...



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,882 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd



    I dont get the hate for petrol stations, and being someone who cannot charge at home and have fk all convienent options locally for public charging (and the odd speedy charger is something like 70c / kwh so dearer than petrol) - filling with petrol in <2 minutes is bliss compared to the struggle that an Ev would entail.



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