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Immigration to Ireland - policies, challenges, and solutions *Read OP before posting*

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  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    I never said it's about race.

    It's about racism, not race.

    An example of racism is claiming that 'limited resources' are used up by immigrants, instead of acknowledging that political decisions, not limited resources, are the root cause of the housing crisis.


    And, to add perspective: extrapolating what you say, limitation of immigration of Irish people in Boston benefits everyone there. 🙄



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭DebDynamite


    But the yet whole media, political and NGO class here is nearly labelling anyone who has concerns about one single issue of society - i.e immigration - as far right?! Without even knowing their stance on the above mentioned housing crisis, climate change, law and order, Irish neutrality… You indeed may have called people far right yourself for expressing those concerns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter



    Racism is about racism. You're playing word games, we're both talking about the same thing here.

    "An example of racism is claiming that 'limited resources' are used up by immigrants, instead of acknowledging that political decisions, not limited resources, are the root cause of the housing crisis."

    That is not an example of racism. That is a fact. We can discuss how we came to this point, I probably agree with you on that. But we're here now. We have finite resources, more people compounds an existing problem.

    If Boston have a housing crisis then yes, limitation on immigration of Irish people (or anyone for that matter) will benefit the people that are already there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    What race are the Illegal Immigrants? You are the one bringing race into it - you know racism is discriminating against someone based on their race? Not sure what game you are trying to play.


    "An example of racism is claiming that 'limited resources' are used up by (Illegal)immigrants, instead of acknowledging that political decisions, not limited resources, are the root cause of the housing crisis."

    The first part of that is absolutely true. While being the minority of the problem its still true. Its basic economics. More demand is more pressure on supply. Political decisions AND limited resources are the root cause of the housing crisis.


    "And, to add perspective: extrapolating what you say, limitation of (Illegal)immigration of Irish people in Boston benefits everyone there."

    Yes it does, frees up housing for locals and immigrants who follow legitimate process.



    I put the Illegal part into your two quotes there, you keep forgetting to put that in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    FFS.

    Depends what you definition of backward and misogynistic is I suppose.

    According to 2014 report from Amnesty International (I presume somone of your opinion would put great store in their findings).

    "Thousands of women and girls continued to face domestic abuse, trafficking, so-called “honour” killings, forced and child marriages, and being traded to settle disputes. The Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC) documented 6,823 incidents of violence against women between October 2012 and September 2013, although the real number is likely to be much higher."

    "Women’s rights activists continue to carry out their important work under threats and considerable risk for their own safety. With security worsening, many are starting to self-censor, fearing the consequences of speaking out too strongly. Dozens of high-profile attacks and threats on women have taken place during Karzai’s administration with little or no prosecution. For example, Hanifa Safi, the Director for Women’s Affairs in Laghman, was shot dead in July 2012 – her successor Nadia Sidiqi was killed just six months later."

    Then you talk about not being backwards race, so I guess you would be ok with the old Afghanistan tradition of "Bacha Bazi" which is a practice in which men (sometimes called bacha baz) buy and keep adolescent boys (sometimes called dancing boys) for entertainment and sex.

    You do know most of the population, and not just women and girls are illiterate ?

    It is highly tribal society and everyone knows it.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Would expect nothing else from someone who doesn't understand far right.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,589 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Don’t want to go off topic but since some posters appear to think Afghanistan is a liberal oasis waiting to happen ....

    People should have a look at the Vice TV documentaries to see how scarily backward and dysfunctional Afghanistan and many of its citizenry are.

    (Caused by its tribal society and not helped by nigh on a century of warfare)

    There is a good New Yorker short documentary on the Afghan “legal system” (basically an aul lad quoting the Quran in a derelict barn setting) which is a real eye opener too.

    These documentaries are available on YouTube.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But there is a swings and roundabouts element. Boston could have a housing crisis but also severe labour shortages. This is where governments have to do a balancing act : what might be good for one part of society might be really bad for another part of the economy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 888 ✭✭✭nolivesmatter


    Of course. If we need the labor we have to get the right people in. The emphasis has to be on the right people. And we need to build homes to house those people.

    I knew an immigrant who was a consultant pediatrician working in Ireland. He was weighing up a move to another part of the country and was contemplating getting a caravan because he couldn't find a house. If we want to keep people like that in this country, and we do, we have to be smarter about how we allocate our resources.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    The difference between race and racism:


    Race: Galway is one of the most diverse, multinational places in Ireland. This is one reason why it's one of the best places to live in the country.

    Racism: A hotel in Galway gets torched by racists.


    Racists can be of many nationalities and races. Racism is, bizarrely, and international phenomenon. Racists from all kinds of places spread the same nonsense, the same 'us vs. them' ideology. There is zero difference between Hitler blaming Jews for whatever idiotic thing he came up with, and Irish racists blaming immigrants for whatever idiotic thing they can come up with.

    And then they start to torch houses.


    For decent people, it is absolutely essential make a stand against the racists that gather outside a hotel in Galway, and spread the nonsense pioneered by Hitler, Trump, and countless others. They are the ones causing actual, real world damage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,649 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    Are the government still using the Electric Picnic site to house people coming into the country?



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    "

    Race: Galway is one of the most diverse, multinational places in Ireland. This is one reason why it's one of the best places to live in the country.

    Racism: A hotel in Galway gets torched by racists.

    "





  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭Unicorn Milk Latte


    i can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    There's a good article here about what's going on in Italy : they are giving visas to asylum seekers to work in the manual labour jobs that local Italians don't want to do. 136,000 have been given out this year, but businesses and unions say there are easily 800,000 vacancies currently available. They would argue that the people being hired are 100% the right people to do such work.

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/italys-meloni-talks-tough-migrants-while-opening-up-foreign-workers-2023-12-06/



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,775 ✭✭✭thomas 123




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    If you listen you would of heard what kind of people were standing outside the hotel. It was stated by a ff minister. They were far from a bunch of racists. But perhaps that doesn't suit the narrative.

    I had to laugh today at M Martin saying false information has to be stopped, but I don't know what is worse false information or what this government uses being no information. Anyhow Galway is very Multi cultural and multi nationality so we had better not jump to conclusions who started the fire incase were being racists.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,963 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Galway is one of the most diverse, multinational places in Ireland. This is one reason why it's one of the best places to live in the country

    Actually it's the other way around, it has become multicultural because it's one of the best places in the country. What made it one of the best places in the country is the western culture and work ethic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Gussoe


    No that's not what it 'means'. That's conjecture. Another POV is: businesses are supportive of policies that depress worker wages.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Your example is completely incomprehensible. You may as well be using the Galway Races as an example of "race"



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    And who exactly do you think flew the country when things got even worse?

    Women. Who worked. And had standing in the community. That's Afghanistan refugees.

    or maybe you don't believe those women need protection?



  • Registered Users Posts: 862 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    One can view these things in any manner they like but I do not think a gang of arsonists and thugs in modern Ireland deserve anyone's support whatever way they feel about modern FF, FG and SF ... there are many things I disagree with the govt on too but am in no way interested in supporting cranks and opportunists ...

    4 main problems I have/had with the current government are ...

    One ... long lockdowns and the willingness to resort to them more often than not during the early years of Covid ... for a long time the govt didn't want to hear anything question this policy ...

    Two .. housing, mortgage culture and rent ... people cannot buy or rent at an affordable price ... even the most basic accommodation to buy or rent is way too expensive ... no supply is being brought quickly ... this fuels the anti immigrant policy ... and seeing dilapidated buildings left go into ruin is sickening to see ... burning a hotel down does not solve anything only means one less place is now available ... the govt have left housing to the banks and their mortgages ... no affordable housing provided and a roof over one's head should be seen as a basic need ...

    Three ... too much rules and regulations on everything .... this often turns people off doing things and means some services like taxis, et al are not available in some areas ...

    Four ... crime ... it is an absolute joke that burglars get 1.5 years of prison time ... usually a sentence of 7 years with 3 suspended ending up doing 1.5 years of that ... that emboldens criminals ... it is a myth too that most criminals are foreign ... the guys operating around my area are very settled Irish and the thugs I saw openly talking drug dealing lingo and threatening each other on a recent trip to Dublin were also very settled Irish ... these very people are also the ones most likely to engage in far right violence and racism blaming foreigners for what they do .... it is time to get this SETTLED IRISH filth off our streets and into jail cells where they belong for 10-20 years ...

    There are also a lot of things the govt does right .. but these issues they do not so good need to be improved ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    who think Afghanistan is a liberal oasis?

    there is a reason refugees have fled from there. Do you not believe those people need protection?



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Ehh how come you can make a comment about a case that is being investigated by state authorities, the AGS, and jump to these conclusions.

    Yet if some of us even dare speak of certain actions that happened in Dublin a number of weeks back, simply because they are being investigated, we get slap on wrist.

    Would it perchance have anything to do with fact you are blaming certain types of people for this act?

    Because someone doesn't agree with their small village becoming a dumping ground for single young men from God knows where, they are immediately racists.

    No the real world damage is caused by idiots that think they can shove who the fook they want anywhere they want and that the locals should just take it.

    Funnily enough a lot of the ones subscribing to this principle never have these single young men living anywhere near themselves.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,885 ✭✭✭suvigirl


    You're suggesting that FF ministers cannot be racist.

    Racists are not just the knuckledraggers you seem to think, some very intelligent people can be racist. They're the ones who manage to get society onside, without most of society even realising.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Problem is we don't get the women.

    We get the young men who have been brought up to believe women are second class citizens.

    And idiots throw out the welcome matt for them which is worse.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users Posts: 558 ✭✭✭Gussoe


    They certainly ARE. I wonder is any bookies taking bets on Electric Picnic getting cancelled or moved..




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭malinheader


    Where did I state that the FF minister was being accused of being racist. I take it that you're suggesting all the people that protested outside the hotel were knuckldraggers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,602 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas



    "We get the young men who have been brought up to believe women are second class citizens."

    That would also describe the 'Ireland is full' incels. Except they weren't brought up that way....they radicalised themselves.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭StrawbsM


    I was saying it in jest to ya 😊 Far right gets bandied about so often now that it’s lost all meaning.



This discussion has been closed.
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