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Russian warship, go f**k yourself!

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    It seems pointless alright especially if they are losing ground elsewhere. Time for a change at the top.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Zelensky still enjoys popularity higher than any world leader, and that's with a dip, 2 years into a war. His general is even more popular. I doubt a "change at the top" will achieve much. That said, if they want to change, they'll change.

    It's a full-scale war, there are going to be losses and significant problems, that's a given. So far, Ukraine has excelled given their extreme situation, but that's the issue, they've set a high bar.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,982 ✭✭✭yosemitesam1


    It's interesting this "bridgehead". If the accounts from the soldiers are true it means the whole thing is an act of desperation and not a show of strength. Could they be weak enough for areas of the frontline to collapse in areas... who knows...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Important point "if true".

    It doesn't always make sense to the soldier on the ground, however it could be strategically important to the Ukrainians in the medium or longer term (for complex reasons). Or it could be a mistake. It's a brutal war, sometimes there's no good/bad option, only the least worst.

    No one has a crystal ball, keeping pressure on e.g. Kharkiv took a heavy toll, but paid off later. With this bridgehead, it could pay off in the future, or not. These decisions are made by people with infinitely more knowledge than a couple of people on the internet, with infinitely more at stake. And even that doesn't guarantee success or a good outcome.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,580 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Speaking of tensions building in Ukraine, it's not the only place tensions are rising in... and set to get worse.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1737121641941905699



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Well it's looking like either the Ukrainian president or the head of the army will soon be replaced so only time will tell. For a country relaying so much on supplies from the US they've been very wasteful in the past few months, especially with their own men. They are now going looking for another half a million troops



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Well it's looking like either the Ukrainian president or the head of the army will soon be replaced so only time will tell.

    News to me, replaced by who, when and how?

    very wasteful

    Okay. It's simple with hindsight to criticise (e.g. there are many, long books written on Allied failures as they prevailed over Germany and Japan)

    If you were in the position of Ukraine right now, what would you be doing differently?



  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭1373


    Looking likely that the counter offensive is over, with Ukraine making no territory gains and everything outside of Ukraine going putins way . US saying aid is scarce, Hungary blocking aid , Poland blocking aid, Putin talking as if the war is nearly over and now Trump saying he'll demand Nato and Others pay back all the aid that the US have given to Ukraine . As someone said above, the russians will be so dug in now , it'll be very very difficult to push them back . Hard to fight the enemy when some of your own are the enemy



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,463 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Hard to fight the enemy when some of your own are the enemy

    I've said this from the beginning.

    A significant portion of Eastern Ukraine always had a significant population of pro Russian/Russian citizens.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    This tired narrative dragged out again. The East and South voted for a candidate who was running on a pro-EU ticket. A majority of Ukrainians in the East/South did not want Russian occupation/control. And that was after years of heavy Russian meddling in local politics and propaganda (which is still doing the rounds here I can see)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭1373




  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭1373


    At the same time, Ukraine couldn't allow russia to simply roll in and take over Ukraine . They are 100% right to fight with everything they've got



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,463 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Nobody spoke of a pro Russian majority

    All your posts are arguing with points nobody made



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    They did simply let Russia roll in. They did little to nothing to stop them in the 12 months the Russians were building numbers just across the border.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Many places in the East and South resisted the Russians bitterly, places traditionally seen as pro-Russian and Russian speaking, those that could. There's a reason the Kremlin struggled to find footage of locals welcoming Russian tanks rolling through.

    It's an odd thing to focus on, a bit like underscoring e.g. Iraqi's who didn't stop US tanks rolling in or e.g. Belgians "doing little" to stop German forces rolling in. A constant sub-text there. Bizarre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭1373


    A showering of missiles into russia , is that what you suggesting



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭Field east


    So UKr should have rolled into Ru and take the initiative as to who would attack first . Or if not that then if you were in charge of UKr what would you have done. Come on now - do’nt go ALL QUIET



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Where did I say Ukraine should have rolled into Russia or shower missiles in before the war? What I did say is what did Ukraine do in the 12 months when Russia were building it's army on their border. The answer is very little if anything. Feel free to point out what they did do apart from a peace march in the capital a few days before the invasion?

    The army are looking to draft another half a million troops and want the West to finance them so that will give you an idea how the last six months went.

    What country that's supporting Ukraine seriously believe that Ukraine can get back to their 2014 border at this stage? The best they can hope for now is to keep what they have and will be lucky if they can do that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,702 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    They did plenty because they were able to stop an invading army from taking over the country in a few days. It's not as if the Ukrainians woke up on Feb 22nd 2022 and seen tanks rolling across the border and then rang personal to report for duty



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,463 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Ukraine is absolutely enormous, taking the whole country was never feasible.

    What the Russians have control of now is as much was ever practical



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    What was Ukraine supposed to do prior to invasion?

    Russia has been at war with them since 2014. A poor country, they managed to entirely revamp their armed forces, they managed to hold back and contain Russian forces in Donbas for 8 years, and have been constantly preparing for further attack by one of the world's largest military powers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    It was completely feasible, the Russians believed they would do it in days, most analysts had Ukraine collapsing within weeks if not days. Russian front line units had parade uniforms packed, Russian officers had booked tables at Kyiv restaurants - Russian forces were outside the capital on the first day.

    There were a few key factors that were critical in the entire country not collapsing, one of which was the comedian/actor President staying put and very effectively rallying the nation.

    It's very possible to take immense swathes of territory, the Russians took Crimea in a day without a shot, everything there collapsed. The Taliban, a vastly smaller force than the Russian military, after 20 years of preparations and defence against them, took the rest of the country in just over a week, a larger country that Ukraine, why? Because everything collapsed. It's a snowball effect.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    The most relevant statistic going forward is in the 15-24 male age bracket, ukriane has circa 2 million boys/men, russia has on paper over 9 million, in a war of attrition, over multiple years if putin manages to stay in power long enough he'll win this war simply by been able to feed more bodies into the battle, ukriane is/will run out of soldiers even when their inflicting more casualties on a man for man basis, they haven't the conveyor belt of youth to replace soldiers, I think their conscription age is over 24 while Russias is 18, again another important factor



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Indeed, there was relatively high corruption in Ukraine (like many ex-Soviet states), on-top of that continual and direct meddling from Moscow.

    Despite all that, and their poor economic situation, they managed to get their armed forces to the level that they didn't just hold the Russian military, but pushed them back, which remains one of the most extraordinary military upsets in modern history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,177 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Absolutely, Ukraine has a serious manpower problem, which I suspect will only increase. Russia also has it's problems, despite having a far larger pool, domestic conscription for a war of choice is becoming a more thorny issue for them, the massive brain-drain leaving Russia, plus their soldiers are fighting purely for money, which always has an impact on morale and cohesion, much of the training is now down to 2 weeks. It's one of the reasons their loss rate is so astronomically high.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,676 ✭✭✭Field east


    Am still waiting for your response re what you would have done if in charge of UKr . And how much of UKr - pre 2014 boarder- would be involved re ‘handing over ‘to Ru as part of finding a solution to end the RU attack?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    I think it was criminal not to listen to what the US had been saying for months and especially the last few weeks. Not putting the army engineers to work months before the invasion is again criminal especially down south where the likes of Mariulop civilians and soldiers paid the price with no means of escaping.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,752 ✭✭✭jaymla627




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,741 ✭✭✭✭Say my name


    There's seemingly a good congregation after joining a CofI church in a local town with a popular clergywoman.

    They want to get as far away as possible from the Russian Orthodox and to what they perceive as western as possible.

    If it's a family war imagine you had bullied your little brother and had him speak the language you spoke not what he wanted or grew up with and he performed in your country as a comedian in your language and you kept telling him we're brothers all the one. And suddenly he started speaking his own language again and he declared we are not all the one we are different and more western and modern and this place where I am is not yours it's this way since the break up of the soviet union and we are joining our western neighbours not you with your suppressiveness and bullying ways. If you had badness in you and you knew what you could get away with. Imagine what such a brother would do to his little brother and especially his family..



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