How is a typical career in the civil service?

Gnk · 19-12-2023 9:10pm #1

Hi everyone! Well, not sure how to start but I am a bit lost. For background, I've started with the civil service in my thirties as an AO coming from the private sector.

Before joining I was expecting a policy-related role or some sort of management support. I worked in a business analyst role in my previous job for some years and I was happy to take a pay cut during the first years to have a role I would enjoy more. I also was expecting that the role would allow me to develop the necessary skills to have a chance to get more responsibilities in the future, i.e. AP, either working in a specialised area or more generally in management.

However, I have landed in a place with a whole new cohort of AOs working with HEOs in a decision-making role. There's nothing similar to a project to be involved, no opportunity to develop any expertise in the area or be exposed to management - that's reserved for some of the HEOs who sign off other staff decisions in their teams. The focus is to get as many productive cases solved.

I don't dislike per se case working environments, I've done it before in the private sector but: 1. I was expecting something completely different as an AO in the CS; 2. In the private sector, there are usually medium-level roles (quality control, analysts, etc.) where employees can be promoted, this is completely non-existent at least in this part of the CS where there's a rigid and established hierarchy with nothing in between HEO/AO and AP.

I feel like there's no way I would ever have a chance to advance to an AP role in the future given the skills developed in my current role and the lack of learning & development.

Is this a typical situation when someone joins the CS? Is the issue more related to the AO grade? I'd like to know your thoughts as I'm a bit lost. Thanks!

MrMusician18 · 19-12-2023 9:21pm

I think you are getting a bit ahead of yourself there with your career path. As an AO you need to be looking at developing the HEO skillset, not the AP. If your HEO isn't delegating tasks that will give you the competence to be able to do their job in three years then you need to think about mobility.

After four years in a given role in the CS you should have the competence to successfully compete for the next step up imo.

So if you've just joined, you are 8-10 years away from AP, and that assumes everything goes well and there's no freeze or other spanner in the works.

Gnk · 19-12-2023 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515789#Comment_121515789

HEOs are doing the same job as AOs in the unit (you might be confusing it with EOs?). The only possible progression for AOs as well as for HEOs is the AP grade. My line manager is an AP so I suppose the AP should be delegating tasks but that's not really happening.

Everlong1 · 19-12-2023 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515789#Comment_121515789

Depends on the Department. I work in Health and there are internal competitions almost every two years. A good HEO\AO who's ambitious enough would have a good shot at getting the AP after four years.

MrMusician18 · 19-12-2023 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515855#Comment_121515855

Sorry, my mistake I'm not a CS and got AO and EO mixed up.

AO is the graduate entry if I'm not mistaken. Can you mobility out?

As I said, you should be able to see yourself in your managers role in three to four years and if you can't you need to take action or your career will stagnate.

Apparently finance and revenue are the worst departments to be AO in with taoiseachs the best, so if you're not getting the experience and L&D you need perhaps looking out for a position there is a good idea?

SouthWesterly · 19-12-2023 10:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515890#Comment_121515890

I worked with a guy in health who went from CO to AP in 18 months.

MrMusician18 · 19-12-2023 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516009#Comment_121516009

Did he enter with AP level experience? And did he skip some rungs on the ladder?

countyireland12345 · 19-12-2023 10:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121515963#Comment_121515963

Sound like OP is in DSP or something. Why do you think Finance is one of the worst? The work is primarily policy-focused not operational, there are excellent L&D opportunities and there appear to be decent promotion prospects for EOs, AOs and APs. I've also heard Revenue is one of the best for promotions.

SouthWesterly · 19-12-2023 10:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121516033#Comment_121516033

Went from CO to HEO to AP on open competition.

Chaos Black · 20-12-2023 10:19am

Difficult to outline the 'typical' career in the CS. There is so many factors such as the Departments/agencies you are assigned to, the individual units within those, the types of work and your line managers. In some ways, there is an element of luck.

If you are looking to become an AP, the competencies are advertised and if you aren't getting or likely to get that experience in your current position, you need to look after your own career and either seek it internally or mobility move.

I would not write off your current experience as nothing, operational experience, even in something mundane will stand to you as an AO. Many just have policy experience and will lack that. But also yes, you need the competencies and a wider exposure to stand a good chance of making AP.

parisee88 · 21-12-2023 9:05pm

Wondering similar to OP - how can you develop leadership skills that aren’t strictly haven’t staff or people report to you so that you can progress to AP?

Chaos Black · 23-12-2023 12:15pm

That is the tricky part in a traditional AO policy role. In internal competitions, you may be fine, but the open competition will be more difficult. On the other side of the coin, a HEO in a traditional operational role may lack policy development experience.

I got the necessary experience as an AO through acting up and a mobility move.

Gnk · 04-01-2024 8:09am

Thanks everyone for your comments!

It seems to me the issue is more related to hiring AOs in droves for operational roles in the department I'm working at the moment where they wouldn't have been assigned before. There are tons of new AOs and no career path/development plans. Some haven't got even to have a meeting with their line managers (APs) since starting many months ago. The general morale is not precisely high.

I'll definitely look at mobility after 2 years or at other competitions.

How is a typical career in the civil service?

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