Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

No, it'd be like using posters from this thread as proof that Ireland supports Israel because some Irish passport holders support Israel. Because other Irish passport holders support Palestine, you could say Ireland supports Israel and Palestine at the same time with your logic, i.e. its nonsense.

There is no official line from BLM supporting Hamas. Until there is, your statement is false.

Do you have more evidence of Black supremacists being anti-semitic? You say it shouldn't be news so there must be plenty as your tone suggests its commonplace.

In your very first link, the ADL itself says "Some, not all".

I'm familiar with the NOI and I'd wager their anti-Semitism is more based on them being Muslims as opposed to Black supremacists.

The final link did have some interesting and uncomfortable stats showing that anti-semitic tropes are used more frequently among African-Americans, though the latest figures don't indicate it being a majority.

Its certainly something that's there but I still disagree that these African Americans are only siding with Palestinians out of anti-Semitism. Do you not think it could be that they see parallels in how they were/are treated in the US? This is a common reason for Irish people who empathise with the Palestinian struggle (it certainly applies in my case) so I don't think it unfathomable that members of another historically oppressed people think similarly.

I know. And when someone makes a blanket claim that it can't be secular because it has religious symbols in its public life, it's perfectly reasonable to look at other countries which also have religious symbols and an established religion to consider whether that fact alone is enough to make a country "not secular". So unless you're going to claim that the UK is "not secular", and that non C of Es are at a disadvantage in the UK, that's clearly not enough evidence for Israel either.

But maybe there is more evidence? For instance like in Gaza, where Hamas has harassed the few remaining Christians out of public life to the extent that they can barely even get jobs at the foreign-run Christian NGOs providing aid to the population, since Hamas' funds generally go to what is to them the far more important aim of destroying Israel?

Unlike Israel where Christians and Druze and Muslims are employed at the highest levels of the state. Seems sufficiently secular to me. Bit like the UK really.

This is the statement the poster made that I replied to:

"Have you ever been there, spoken to an israeli, or read their laws? It's a secular state by definition."

I then provided a citation that stated:

"Due to the massive role of religion in government and politics, Israel cannot be considered a secular state in the common sense of the word.[7]"

I didn't bring any other country into the debate and I certainly made no claims about the UK.

As I said in my reply to you, this thread is about current events in Israel.

You're perfectly entitled you your opinion: "Seems sufficiently secular to me." but I prefer citations and references.

If you have a contrary citation to the one I gave to add weight to your opinion, I'd be delighted if you would share it.

And do share citations for the UK and the evidence for your statement about Gaza. I would find those very interesting.

You went from denying their antisemitism to admitting there's something there and to justifying their antisemitism in just one post.

As for the Irish sympathy towards Palestinians, I think it's misguided and one sided.

Non-governmental. Why is that embarrassing?

Many believe the numbers published by 'Hamas Health Authority' on 'civilians' killed in Gaza. But a non-governmental NGO in Jerusalem...filthy liars!

Wrong question.

The correct question is do you and others like you support a country that has been indiscriminately attacked by a murderous death cult who publicly call for the butchering of innocent civilians and use their own civilians to protect themselves thus causing more death and misery.

Do you call for the safeguarding of a country that has been subject of a sovereign nation president calling for it to be, 'wiped oft the map', while having aspirations to become a nuclear armed nation?

Do you call on the release of all innocent Israeli hostages held in Gaza?

And do you call for the extermination of a death cult that not only abuses its own people but steals the wealth from its own people to build infrastructure used solely for the murder of Jews.

Amnesty International.

The organisation who criticised Ukraine for sheltering and firing from populated urban areas but does not invoke same criticism of Hamas/Islamic Jihad.

Where was their outrage at Octover 7th attacks? Or the outrage for still holding innocent Israeli civilians as human shields?

Blatant bias.

Embarrassing.

Many believe Hamas figures because over the years, when WHO, or MSF, or other organizations determine deaths in Gaza, they've found the figures to be extremely close to those the Gaza Health Ministry produces.

We've seen how reliable Israeli communications and messaging has been over the last several weeks. The fact that this is supposedly an NGO means nothing to me in the context of who to believe.

Ok - let's leave it there.

I think context is important.

Last elections were 2005 (18 years ago). Half the population of Gaza were not even born then.

Israel supported Hamas and wanted them to win the election to split the Palestinian authority.

Do you think the Israelis are currently exhibiting adult humane behaviour?

Sorry, I think I missed the post. The source of what?

I think you meant to post this responding to someone else's comment, possibly in a different thread.

Yes indeed - look at how Ukraine and Zelensky have responded to invasion by Russia for example. Despite major provocation, no reports of war crimes nor have they resorted to bombing civilian areas in Moscow. Zelensky is clearly a warm and empathetic man who cares about human life.

Israel has gone full on rogue / pariah state in the last couple of months and is seemingly not even remotely bothered about the consequences or their international reputation.