Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

There is no point arguing with posters who are bringing up antisemitism. They are completing ignoring thr emotive effect of the killing of women and children. If they were massacring Hamas only, people wouldn't care.

They are just repeating whatever is the current Israeli government line because that is basically their positions. The operation should just end in theirminds s whenever the Israeli government unfurls their mission accomplished banner and declares victory.

If this were true, people would care more about the deaths of children in Yemen than they clearly do.

I don't think people care about Muslims killing Muslims in general. They didn't care when the Shia and sunni militant were blowing each other up in Iraq when the americans were there. Do you care about when Jewish people are killing Muslims or only when Muslims kill Jewish people?

This doesn't even make sense. I don't see it as Jewish vs the rest, I see it as one small nation that is fighting to survive, and whose people have nowhere else safe in the world, as their history shows. Unlike the Palestinians who, for centuries, even by their own reckoning were "Arabs" rather than Palestinians, and who for decades didn't even want Palestine to exist, because they mostly saw themselves as part of "Greater Syria".

The Palestinians were given the option of their own country, but they didn't want that, because they wanted to destroy Israel rather than create their own functioning state. All their resources have been funnelled into weapons to destroy Israel, which is why they have now lost what they originally had. But them's the breaks when you choose to go to war.

If Ireland had rejected the treaty and gone on fighting the English, would we now be a modern state that is part of the EU or would we be a war-torn shithole?

So no, it's not about who's killing who, but about why the war is happening in the first place.

Palestinians could have accepted the existence of Israel - it was only a small percentage of the total land the Arabs were given - but no, they wanted it all. They lost that fight, so they needed to suck that up, and compromise. Like us with the treaty. You can hate a situation but not everything justifies going to war over it. And you can use peaceful means to change something. That's what we agreed with the GFA.

Instead of that though, Palestinians went all-out for a death cult that prefers constant war to building a state. And this is the result.

Meanwhile, Israel has tried all sorts of ways (some worse than others) to find ways to create a stable state next door to the death cult, but the Oct 7th attacks were an attack too far for many ordinary Israelis. Because you can't farm land or do anything normally when you're likely to be kidnapped at any moment. Hamas became an existential threat to ordinary Israeli civilian life at that stage. And nobody who is saying that Israel has overreacted seems to have any alternative suggestions to make as to what Israel could reasonably have done instead.

That makes me think that they all know well that there was no alternative, but that they want Israel to sit there and take it anyway. IOW they're perfectly content to see Israel being destroyed.

They're just not quite ready to say so out loud. Yet.

I do not want to see israel destroyed and am against this operation continuing so you can take that bogus conspiracy theory elsewhere.

There is no alternative to the slaughter of women and children with end in sight in your mind? To be honest that may be because you just take what the Israeli government line is and run with it. If Israel had not taken 20k lives in last two months they would still be in existence today.

What is your perfectly reasonable end game solution for this conflict or are you waiting for the Israeli governmentcto tell you this?

You cannot expect us to take this seriously. You supposedly don't want Israel to be destroyed but you don't want them to defend themselves against a mortal enemy bent on their annihilation?

These two positions are mutually exclusive. Israel cannot be expected to co-exist with Hamas.

So if a terrorist group/government, let's say Hamas for example, develops a strategy of using its own civilians as human shields, they then become unattackable in your view?

I wouldn't bomb them thereby ensuring their human shields die. You would obviously.

I didn't ask what you wouldn't do. I asked what you would do.

It seems like your answer is "Nothing".

Something that is very seldom highlighted is that all ! islamists want , in theory, all infidels killed. Did not Mohammed say that if an infidel do not turn his/ her back on the non Islamic religion they are following an d convert to Islam then they should be killed. Is it not stated in the Koran? I stand to be corrected and maybe it is only one or two of the ‘ branches ‘ of Islamic followers that have this as a basic tenant. The branches would include Shias, Bahais’ Wahhabism and Sunnis at least

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The above position, is part of the unwritten script that has been driving Hamas.

No, you seem to have forgotten - or perhaps you never noticed? - that Hamas are not just a terror group.

So a good sign would be when the health ministry is no longer the Hamas-run health ministry, for instance. That would mean that the head of Al-Shifa hospital would no longer be a Hamas man, put there for his Hamas sympathies. Ditto for the education, police and justice systems in Gaza - once they are no longer run by Hamas, there would be some chance of doing what was done in Germany after the collapse of the Nazi regime and allowing others to run the place. Your belief that this would mean Israel is not shared by many Israelis, who want nothing to do with Gaza after the war. An international coalition would probably be needed. Hey - you could even put your own life where your mouth is and go and help them, since you claim to care so much about the ordinary people of Gaza.

So in effect, your only suggestion is "no change from previous strategy". Targeted assassinations have been happening for years. They didn't prevent Oct 7th, so they aren't enough to stop it happening again.

The rest is "look over there" handwaving from you. Hilarious, given your previous posts.

But not against the killing of innocent Israeli women and children, it seems. They can go stuff themselves.

I understand that , under ‘normal conditions’ and pre Oct 7th last that there were 500 trucks a day entering Gaza. And only 20% of theirs had to do with basic needs including food. The rest , I assume, had to do with cars , machinery,, Electrical goods, and suchlike. I suggest that the UN is doing a dis- service to the cause by constantly referring to this 500 trucks as if that is the current target that is now required. I wonder if Israel is not trusting the UN to supervise the trucks coming in because of this ?

No I'm against the killing of both Israelis and gazans. Are you? No is the answer