Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Most of the land dedicated to Israel in the 1947 UN plan was inhospitable desert. It's a lie perpetuated by the 'pre-1947' maps you see showing vast swaths of southern Palestine as 'Palestinian' when they were empty desert, and likely belonged to Jordan/Egypt/...

In 1947, 60% of "Palestine" was Muslim, 33% Jewish and 8% Christian.

As for who owned what, that's another tricky question - pre-Israeli Jewish settlers lived on land they purchased from whoever controlled it, like the Ottomans.

And, lest we forget, as soon as the UN mandate came into force in 1947, the neighbouring countries like Jordan, Egypt, Syria even Iraq, all invaded with the express purpose of dividing the land amongst themselves. There were no "Palestinians" then; Palestinians are an invention starting in the 1960's once the local powers realized they couldn't readily defeat the Israelis.

Israel needed living space so it was entitled to take more land? Do you think the 1947 resolution was fair to Palestine?

Israel got more physical land, because most of what it got, was useless desert. The Israelis did improve the local conditions quite a bit.

They weren't "given" all of that though - their Arab neighbours attacked them to take away even what they had - and they lost. That's what happens when you lose wars. Or maybe you think Germany should start bringing up its claim to large sections of Poland which used to be part of Germany?

As I said, they were given 56% of the land as a result of the 1947 Resolution

Funny thing is, every other war to the death in history (like WWII) resulted in collateral damage. Do you hope all the participants in those wars burned in hell too, or just Israelis?

Anyone who can quibble with such appalling savagery is sick. Sympathisers too for good measure 🔥 Maybe they are all heathens.

Haha do you really believe that is going to happen? No so why even suggest it as a solution to the Israelis killing civilians in Gaza. Hamas care as little about the Palestinian civilians as Israel in the last two months.

I think what you're suggesting is called collective punishment. But if you're ok with that, then fine.

Oh well that's ok then - a group of unarmed civilians were taken violently hostage, many have still not been released, several have died in custody, including apparently a 10 month old baby and his four-year-old brother. Some of the children came back unable to speak louder than in whispers because they'd been so terrified and traumatised all the time they were kept captive - but it's all a fuss about nothing because these two women weren't badly treated?

Sweet suffering Jesus what are you like.

And has it occurred to you that they may have husbands, fathers or brothers still being held by Hamas and are therefore being very careful to put a positive spin on being held captive by terrorists?

Do you know that some of them were given ketamine before they were handed over, to make them look happy and relaxed? So I wouldn't be sure that you're hearing the whole truth there - but even if you were, FFS they were captured in a violent incident that in itself was enough to traumatise people - and that alone is a crime.

But yeah, you do you.

That's why Hamas need to be removed from power: it's not Israel's job to make the lives of Palestinians bearable, but it is - or it should be - Hamas', since they're the government of Gaza.

If your government are violent autocrats, you're just unlucky. Plenty of countries suffer from that problem: Iran, North Korea, China etc. But if they're violent autocrats who attack the neighbouring country, then you're even more unlucky, because your neighbours are going to attack them back, and you're likely to be in the way.

But I don't think Gaza can expect Israel to put up with being attacked just to save Gazans. That's not how nations work. Israel's role is to ensure the safety of Israelis.

Lol yes, I take all my political opinions from Saudi Arabia, that bastion of tolerance and human rights. If they say it, it must be true They definitely wouldn't be biased towards Hamas. It's not like they share some of the same opinions on Jews, gay people and women and how they should be treated. It's a provable lie that civilians weren't targeted by Hamas. Why do you continually try to excuse them of their actions?

If you hate Israel so much that you're aligning yourself with Saudi Arabia, well you're really scraping the barrel. Pathetic.

All those kids they have been killed will have relatives who will be enemies of Israel for life. In the short term I'm sure it will reduce the number of rockets flying at Israel but this latest blood letting has just pushed back probably by decades the idea even of lasting peace

Picking your own points when this conflict started. It did not start with the creation of Israel, it was happening long before that, violence between Jewish settlers and Arabs was rife during the British mandate of Palestine.

As I have pointed out before, an independent commission of enquiry was set up post War 1 to assess the future of the region. Following their investigations into the region, the commission reported that the people of the area were completely opposed to Zionism and they recommended that the Zionists forget about trying to establish a Jewish state in the region. Jewish people made up about 11% of the population at that time. The commission clearly recognised the potential problems of Zionism and the resulting conflict, yet the great powers ignored the advice of the commission and ploughed ahead with their own agendas, and here we are 100 years later still dealing with that stupid decision. All the UN did in 1947 was solidify a problem that had already been created.

The problems were not created by the Palestinians, they were created by Zionism, the British(Balfour Declaration) and later, western powers. Palestinians were completely ignored time and again on what they wanted for their lands, of course they were never going to accept the creation of a new state in their lands by a people who had accounted for about 5% of the population barely 50 years earlier. Could the US for example not have given up one of their lowly populated states to the Zionists for the creation of a Jewish state?

Maybe the Nazis just didn't use human shields as extensively as Hamas?