18 year old get out of the house.

When I was 18 I respected my mother, and I did what she asked me to do. There are plenty of nights to go out, Xmas eve at home at a decent hour with your family is fair enough.

Sounds like he has no respect for his parents anyway, doesn't even text them if he's staying out, basic manners.

My read of it is that the "Please be home by 9" thing on Christmas Eve was to participate in some kind of family tradition, not because they were being strict. Which is fair enough, imo.

Yes he should probably have a bit of leeway in regards to him being finished school and working.

that doesn’t disregard the other issues, lack of respect and kicking off and whatever else the OP has said.

if my Son behaved like that I’d put manners on him pretty quick, I dunno if I’d kick him out but in saying that he would probably want to leave anyway.

Me too. But when I was home I did what my mother asked

OP, I have to be honest, I did get the impression when reading your first post, that there may be some pandering going on towards your younger child on your part, which may be fuelling your older child's resentment towards her.

You mention her several times in your posts, as it seems she is a big motivating factor in your decision to kick him out and she was your reason for dragging him away from his friends on Christmas Eve.

When I was 18, I had a 4 year old sibling at home, (big age gap) but my mother would never have insisted I leave my own friends to come home early for his sake on Christmas Eve.

Be careful that you are not inadvertently causing or contributing towards friction between them. It sounds like he is resentful of her, and you take her side.

I'll repeat my previous advice to seek out a family therapist, and may pursue a therapist for him individually, if he suffers anxiety. Don't give up on him.

Its quite clear that your son has a serious drink problem and he's only 18?? Do you think he is abusing drugs also, because he could be and you may not be aware of it?

Is he abusive when sober in the family home or when he comes home from the pub drunk?

I think a converation needs to be had with him asap.

I left home at 18 yrs old and it didnt do me any harm, it actually matured me.

If he is violent and has damaged property in the family home , you have many options open to you, you can get the Garda involved also for advice, safety or barring order options.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/problems-in-marriages-and-other-relationships/barring-safety-and-protection-orders/

If I'm being honest OP I think it might be better off for him if he could move out, for his sake.

I just have a gut feeling you are gonna be one of these "my son never calls us or visits where did we go wrong? in 5 or 10 years

Also I'm curious what's his good salary? He's just outta secondary, what area are you located without making it revealing?

Surely this is not the norm

Maybe in some circles? Was more the norm for them to work a part time job to the detriment of their LC and take out a CU loan to buy a car and cover insurance 10/15 years ago.....sky rocketing insurance (I presume) means I see much less teenagers driving cars around here anymore ...the ones that do are driving mammy and daddy's car and ignoring the accompanied driver rule (they probably were back then too) or very occasionally they are from a well off family that just buys thrm everything (probably to their eventual detriment)........rural though, could be well be different in urban areas or other areas of the country

When I was in school there was the occasional one driving in and out in maybe 6th year....to the envy of everyone else...then the country went a bit mental in the mid noughties and there was a rash of kids driving in during 5th Yr....and by rash I mean maybe 10/15 kids out of a year group of 100....

Forget about asking him to be home at a certain time. It use drive me crazy when I was ordered to be home at a certain time when I was 18 plus. He's a young, wants to stay out with friends not be told what to do.

I get your worried about him, but hovering over him like that will push him further away, it's happened in my own home. There must be something bothering him deep down by the way he's acting. He sounds very unhappy.

I dont think your a bad parent if u ordered him to leave. He shouldn't make anyone in the house upset or intimated.

I wonder is he little jealous of the younger sister? Does she get treated any bit differently to him?

no abuse has been described though.

from what I've read the abusive party is the mother who is threatening to throw her son out because he decided to ignore a completely unreasonable curfew while weaponising his sister against him. She sounds extremely controlling. Had my dad dragged me away from my friends at 18 years old I'd have "kicked off" too and I wasn't paying my parents 80 quid a week's rent for the privilege of living under that regime!

I think the sons version of events would tell a different story

What age is your other child

+1

Up to the Celtic Tiger, even during the recession and a little after not too bad.

But the last few years with rents, cost of living and even supposed good jobs refusing to give inflation matching wages? Christ may as well just give em a tent unless they are making 40k plus at 18

Can I just say fair play to you for at least being willing to do a little bit of reflection. I will say tho your son also has to give some bit back from his side also despite from what I've said. He's not long 18 so could also still be getting a belting from hormones and that if I'm being honest I was similar and embarrassingly can actually remember at that age thinking nonsense such as death doesn't upset me why are they crying (family members over my gran, even tho I missed her myself) and not being able to understand depression, it's a damn site different now tho.

I wonder could you employ a tactic I found worked with younger people I know who just can't or won't take direction.

For example instead of something like "I want you home for x" maybe "oh I love when you are around and we watch a film together 😊" that sort of thing, might not work at all.

Another thing is I wonder would a sport such as boxing or even just some healthy way to release anger also help for his age.

Hopefully ye might reach a nice middle ground 👍

lots of jobs in usa or outback in australia where accomadation is cheap ask him to choose a destination usa or australia and you pay for one way flights after that hes on his own

I don't get this pack him off to another continent train of thought.

He's not bumming his way through life, up all night sleeping all day, craic.

He has got himself a full-time job that pays well.

The issue here is a teenager fighting with their parents....a sibling fighting with another sibling......pretty much textbook behaviour that's happening up and down the country.

For me what was really telling was saying he acted out at "my parent in-laws funeral" very much "I'm the victim" .....another person would say he acted out at his grandparent's funeral....another parent would give their child a "free pass" ......yeah he may have been out of line , but a bit of compassion would go a long way. The bond between grandparent and grandchild is alot stronger than parent in law and daughter in-law.

I'm also wary of the whole "I'm protecting my daughter spiel" .....it could also be interpreted as I'm not getting my own way ,so I'm going to justify my actions by going into momma bear mode.

My suspicions are this is a golden child/scapegoat dynamic.

While these threads you'll only ever get one side, I would be very interested in hearing the sons side and even the husband's too.

He's extremely entitled about the car though.

18 and being told to come home at 8pm?

Not sure the 18 year old is the problem here.

How does a 17 year old have a well paying full time job, that would allow him to move out and rent, surely he's still in school.

why is earth did you describe him as abusive towards alcohol and drugs in your opening paragraph then?

look, I think you need to look very hard at yourself. what you did to your son is absolutely shocking and you very clearly favour your daughter. my 6 and 4 year old do worse to each other than what you've described here and yet you're dressing it up as if your daughter has been harassed. if she's running to you over ever little thing and you're hand wringing and villifying him over i every disagreement they have I'm not surprised they have no relationship and I'm not surprised you have no relationship with him either. I'm upset thinking about the environment your son is in.

I have a strong suspicion his gripe is not really about the car either. does favouritism of your daughter extend to gifts too? will she be handing up cash to live under your roof at 17 too? I'm not surprised he couldn't look at her when he was dragged out of a pub by his father to keep her happy. the whole situation is bizarre.