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URC Round 8: Munster vs. Leinster - 26/12/2023

245

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    I don't think the weather is a huge factor here - considering we're looking at a lock. He's going to be expected to do what a lock does regardless of the weather (bar maybe an increased margin for error with regards clearouts and handling). It'd be different if it was, say, an outhalfs performance we were looking at, as the wind and rain would have a much larger effect on his game than the lock forward's.

    Standard of opposition is a huge thing though for sure - and you can't deny his obvious physicality. I could see him being a Lion in eighteen months IF he can sort out his discipline and keep having those explosive impacts over the next year or so in Europe and 6N.

    And if I do decide to track another player's stats, I will endeavour to apply the same level of scrutiny. So expect to see lots of neutral impacts in the future lol.

    I'm going to ask you to elaborate slightly what you mean by that?

    Glad the effort is being appreciated though! :)

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Good effort. Good fair analysis. He's certainly a good player with some amount of learning still to come.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Take (for example) Stormers v La Rochelle, and do the same analysis for Smith or Van Heerden.

    Assuming you use the same criteria for involvements (dominant vs neutral), you'd then have a baseline to compare Joe McCarthy against.

    E.g., if you did Van Heerden, and he came out something like:

    Net positive 5, Net negative 30, Net neutral 8.

    Then it's a sign McCarthy (11,11,25) is contributing more to a side that beat the same opposition, using the same criteria to judge involvements.

    It's just an idea if you had any concerns about how you score involvements. I am by no means stressing that you need to do this.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Yeah, tV, you NEED to do this



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Ah yes I see.

    Now that I think of it, it would be interesting to cross compare across similar games to elite level tighthead locks.

    I see LAR are playing Toulouse at home on December 30th. If, say, Arnold or Meafou were playing for Toulouse, and they narrowly beat a mostly full strength LAR in La Rochelle, it'd make for an interesting examination of how (in theory, off a very limited sample size) McCarthy's performance squares up against the top locks in Europe in a similar situation.

    Food for thought :)



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Munster have been unlucky with injuries but they'd started the flogging of Beirne before all the injuries piled up. In the 3 URC games before Europe there were opportunities to rest him for players who were fit but they didn't.

    Unless you're claiming they'd planned to rest him during Europe, this was the match they'd probably starred him to have time off. Probably isnt too surprising either if he is spending time back with his family in Leinster over Christmas.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Munster have been unlucky with injuries but they'd started the flogging of Beirne before all the injuries piled up.

    Or, alternatively, they played Beirne in 1-2 games before all the injuries piled up. That's not flogging.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Yes, because that hasn't been going well at all....



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,156 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol



    I used the term 'flogging' tongue firmly in cheek, though they've used him in every game (I believe every minute) they could since he was allowed back, presuming he had the same first option to return timing as the heavily used Leinster WC players. They didn't have to select him in all 3 of those initial URC games, as they had other healthy options, but they did.

    I really don't know why the defensiveness about this, both sides seem to have been forced to rest players due to their early season decisions.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,823 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    A neutral ref this time which should make a difference.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Been going great.

    Still needs to be supplemented though.

    Can't argue about resting a lock when you've a lock starting in the back row.

    Coaches are given blocks, with test players given minutes to play then. How they use those minutes is up to the particular coaches.

    Munster are in 4th place in the URC, so it's hard to argue they haven't used their allotment to the best of their ability so far.

    Results in Europe are more coach based than IRFU based



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    To be fair, it's possible Munster simply decided it was more worthwhile to have Beirne in other games rather than this one. It's not like it is necessarily a mistake.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And that's all fair, and I've no issue with them resting Beirne here. Or even having to rest Beirne here.

    I have an issue when it's labelled as somehow "Munster's fault", when that entirely overlooks the injury situation.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I think they expected POM to be back sooner, tbh. It's not really like they had any other option than to play him once the injuries started piling up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran


    Rashord proving how hungry he is for the ball with one touch so far



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,920 ✭✭✭✭stephen_n


    Perhaps the wrong thread, definitely the wrong sport.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,031 ✭✭✭Nigzcurran




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Rigor Mortis


    Easy mistake. Another group of reds who've seen better days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Thought for a second Leinster had given up Harry Byrne and Sam Prendergast, and had brought in another initially promising but ultimately inconsistent and underwhelming #10.....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    JGP is out of the squad and Luke McGrath starts. Pretty big blow for Leinster. The latter has been poor for quite a while now.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,430 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    O'Callaghan losing the absolute run of himself on the telly over the Snyman issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Conditions look similar to the La Rochelle vs Leinster game a few weeks ago.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Weak enough Munster side, Leinster by 15



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Leinsters line speed was excellent in those set of phases prior to Crowley kicking out on the full. Drove Munster backwards.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,276 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Clear penalty for Leinster missed at the lineout there.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Two kicks now where the ball has just died on the turf. Pitch is really cutting up.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    As rough a night as I remember in Thomond.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,276 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    That's an outrageous call at the scrum. Munster no 6 literally jumps on the prop and topples the scrum.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Andrew Porter not driving straight?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Leinster's line speed is the real difference so far. Catching Munsters attack well behind the gain line and eking out penalties.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,276 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Committing big numbers to the rucks as well. Thought they blew that ruck out of the water but the ref was telling them to not touch it.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Ruck formed but when everyone is off their feet it's no longer a ruck surely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Lenehan talking pure rubbish about Porter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,711 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Munster not getting much go forward on the carry.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭KH25


    Conditions are really impacting this game.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Zebs rolling back the years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Larmour should have done better there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Those 6pts are a big lead for Leinster in such conditions. Munster haven't looked like scoring, maybe wind more against them.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭KH25


    Thought that tackle looked a bit rough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    That's a YC minimum



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Casey tip tackles Larmour onto his head/neck.

    That's at least a yellow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭KH25


    Can’t complain with a yellow there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,276 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Not dangerous? He tips him on to his head/neck area almost vertically. Brutal tackle and lucky to get a yellow.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,872 ✭✭✭budhabob


    Stupid by Casey there, can't complain about a yellow at least.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    That was great defence.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,530 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Why did everyone completely ignore Jager's involvement in the tackle on Larmour?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,316 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    McCarthy hit with a shoulder to the head.

    That's a clear yellow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,790 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    That's not foul play? Bull.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,946 ✭✭✭KH25


    Ridiculous from Brace. It’s a shoulder to the head.



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