Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Great post.

Israel is levelling parts of Gaza how is that taking back control? Ironic that you state truth is the casualty of war yet you seem to only recognise mistruths on the Hamas side.

Pretty sure the Arabs come from, eh, the Arabian Peninsula.

They came out from there in a series of wars of invasion from about 630 AD: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab%E2%80%93Byzantine_wars

So no, the Arabs came after the Jews, the Samaritans, the original (pharaonic) Egyptians, the Berbers in North Africa, the Assyrians in what is now Syria and a bunch of others who were previous inhabitants in the area now populated by Arabs.

Of course the Muslim habit of taking women as sex slaves means that the DNA of the original inhabitants has survived to some extent - but I'm not sure that's testimony to the innate goodness of their Arab masters. More to their success as multiple rapists.

I'm not in the business of setting bars or not, I leave that to others, the question is, is it true or not?

its a question of perspective. It is a fact that in areas of Gaza that the IDF have taken control of, there are no longer any missiles or rockets fired into Israeli territory. from these areas. So Yes, from the Israeli perspective, that is taking back control. And for your information, I've lived in that part of the world for several years, and I do not support either side, and especially when it comes to propaganda. If you want to believe that I am anti Hamas, and Pro Israel, you are very much mistaken, but believe whatever suits you.

If that's the way you interpret it, then fire away, freedom of thought and speech is allowed here in Ireland.

Israel needs to treat the Palestinians with respect if they want a sustainable peace and help them rebuild Gaza. Hamas might just disappear if that happened imo, a big maybe. You catch more bees with honey than you do with vinegar. There's a grid in one of the posts on the last page about the deaths in Israel and Gaza through violence since 2006 and it wouldn't inspire a lot of hope but they have to try something.

Yes, Israel have indiscriminately bombed areas of Gaza they have deemed safe for civilians:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/21/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-bomb-investigation.html

It's the ideal, of course, but realistically, can you see that happening?

Maybe we all have to point to solutions? And the solution doesn't begin with the complete capitulation of the other side. The way I look at it, there is 2,000 years of history to be overcome. There is right and wrong on both sides. There has to be a 2 states solution. The 1947 solution which Palestinians deemed to be unacceptable but Israelis generally accepted hoping for more? I think Palestinians would now accept these borders but Israelis wouldn't?

I would be interested in your views

Believe me, Sudden Valley, as sure as night follows day, when Israel finishes its military campaign against Hamas, one way or another, they will completely control every sq inch of Gaza. The 2005 hand over to the Palestinians will not happen again. You will have the IDF at every street corner, and in every administrative building. They will control everything that comes into and leaves Gaza. No longer will anyone be able to smuggle in missiles and bombs, or concrete to build tunnels. Gaza will be administered by the IDF.

As for me living in that part of the world for many years, you are right, it has influenced my thinking and opinion. And that opinion is that at different times both sides have brutalized each other. And they continue to do so, as recent events have shown. I've experienced the Taliban in Afghanistan, Al-Qaida and ISIS in Syria, (they killed friends of mine there) and I can tell you that I consider Hamas to be just another terrorist group, and like ISIS and Taliban, the sooner they are all eliminated from the face of the earth, the better.

I would agree that the world would be better without Hamas.

But the first paragraph is why I think you buy into the Israeli propaganda full scale, and that is why I do not believe you. I think those who support the continuation of the killing of civilians support such cruelty as they believe it is the only way to reach this perfect resolution to the conflict you describe. Its like you think it was an easy choice to leave Gaza in 2005.

I believe that you have no hand or part in this. I got this impression form the nature of your posts such as comparing the IDF to Putin, a ridiculous comparison since anyone not completely evil would look good compared to Putin. Perhaps you could put my confusion to bed, do you want Israel to stop immediately and allow humanitarian aid in without any preconditions? That would save civilian lives.

As to how to stop the killing, do you not support Israel's continued methods that are leaving 10s of thousands of Palestinians dead.

Through the slaughtering of innocent people, both Russia and Israel made the world take notice and for people to research or education themselves about the history of the conflicts. So many, myself included were oblivious to the plights of Ukraine and Gaza, now pretty much everyone is up to date on the history. Israel managed to turn the shock and horror of the Oct 7th attacks and the support for Israel and literally just transferred that over to Gaza. Most people can see through the lies and bullshit the Israeli diplomats and spokespersons spew, we've seen it all with the Russians. It's amazing how similar they are!

They had sympathy because innocent people died, but as a country, they never had the moral high ground. They're one of the worst nations on the planet and we're being suitably condemned earlier this year for it.