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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,302 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    It's a target and can be changed if required which is what you are confirming.

    I have no idea what the rest of the rant if about. Typical anti green nonsense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    This may sound like hyperbole but this madness of net zero may break up the European experiment. Decisions being made today will have long lasting consequences for 100’s of millions of Europeans and it feels like the entire bloc is sleepwalking into an economic disaster.

    The current policies are designed to severely hamstring the entire continent to the extent that the US and Asia must be laughing their heads off at the sheer insanity of it.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭Coolcormack1979


    the USA have been driving the deindustrialising of the eu but the eu is too blind to see beyond the green rhetoric.when they wake up it will be too late



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Certificates? What certificates are you talking about? You think VAG are afraid of a few certificates?

    if production is moved to a lower cost economy surely this would tend to drive prices down, not up?

    The price of energy is driven by the Ukraine War, not anything to do with the CBAM.

    I suppose you think the Ukrainians should fold the tent on the war with Russia, the same as Europe should stop bothering about combating climate change?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Could you at least attempt to read what is posted before replying with yet another of your belligerent posts ? It`s childish and tiresome.

    You said "2035 was always a target". A target is something you aim for and that is not what the E.U. Commission voted on and passed. Or what the the E.U. parliament subsequently voted on and passed. They voted and passed the motion that no new ICE vehicles would be sold in the E.U. after 2035 by law.

    No surprise you didn`t understand what the rest of the post was about on Germany backed by others putting a stop to it. It was to do with economics. Something greens, especially on this thread, appear to have no understanding off.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,302 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    More personal comments and then you call someone childish. Should really look in the mirror.

    In regards to what you posted, it is wrong. Surprise Surprise. The 2035 is passed but as I said can be changed. Nobody has stopped it as you claim.

    What Germany and other wanted was car that run on e-fuels.

    Italy also want to change the law because of the amount of jobs that will be at risk.

    It will be at least 2 years before any of this is confirmed. Expect it to be water down, what that is I don't know yet.

    If I was you I would stop lecturing people



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant



    This dime bar is so detached from reality it's scary. He genuinely thinks a 75K loan over 20 years at 4% interest rate is a "game changer".

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,385 ✭✭✭prunudo


    So about €400/month extra, on top of current mortgage, pension, insurance and other outgoings. Which requires an extra €7k a year in gross income. On technology that will probably be redundant half way through the loan term.


    Follow the money lads, follow the money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    I actually got the term length wrong, it's over a 10 year max. So the repayments come in at nearly 700 per month. Pure lunacy

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    The end of that article contains this gem

    “””

    Asked specifically when the Metro would be completed, he said it would be “in the early part of the next decade”.

    ”””



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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I mean, I think most of us would be delighted if there was a Metro finished by early 2030s. If he gets the railway order and some shovels in the ground during his tenure, along with other improvements in public transport, I'd be delighted with his term as Minister of Transport.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    It really should have been his number 1 priority the entire time he was in office. A Dublin metro would actually be one of the few projects to move the needle in getting people out of cars and on to public transport. It's been a huge missed opportunity and a serious black mark against him.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    black mark how? it's progressing and looking more likely to be built than any previous attempts at a metro.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    Progressing where exactly? Is there even a single shovelful to have broken ground



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    All of the massive amounts of red tape. Pretty sure hearings go ahead for the planning approval some time first quarter of 2024. Check out the thread on the Infrastructure forum on Metro, the transport nerds there seem pretty certain it's happening this time and keep up to date with all developments. It seems to be heading in the right direction, under the watchful eye of our hero Big Eam.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,014 ✭✭✭Blut2


    There are 2 million odd households in Ireland, so at circa 50k a year households it'll only take 40 odd years to retrofit them all with this scheme. What an achievement!

    If the Greens actually wanted to drive down emissions, while helping improve the quality of life of people, they'd have brought in a very easy to qualify for no interest loan scheme. A whole house retrofit paid for upfront by the government, with say 80% of the electricity/heating savings then taken a month until the loan is paid off.

    The home owner would still benefit from lower electricity/heating bills so it would be worthwhile for them, emissions would go down, and the cost to the state long term would be minimal - particularly at a time when we've got billions of excess euros sitting around not being used. Everyone wins.

    Instead our Greens only introduce schemes like this which only already wealthy people could possibly use - the only households going to be able to add 700e a month to their monthly outgoings are those already very financially comfortable.

    And at the same time they continually ratchet up taxes on everyone, making life even harder for the poor/working classes...

    Its no wonder they're facing electoral wipe-out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,385 ✭✭✭prunudo


    There is plenty of progress. Far more than anything in the past. Metrolink will happen, but I'd be surprised if its completed as early as Eamonn alluded to above.

    I don't actually think he believes in the project himself. He never seems to get passionate about it or be singing its praises. Comes across as being indifferent to it which is strange given what it will achieve.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,110 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Where do you come up with this nonsense. Germany, Iataly or the other countries that would not sign off on this didn`t give a rats ass about e-fuels. As Carville said back in 1992, "It`s the economy stupid". But then perhaps you believe that jobs have nothing to do with economies..

    E-fuels are just another of the green pipe dreams and were only a face saving exercise by the E.U. to cover that their plan to ban the sale of ICE vehicles after 2035 are dead and buried. E-fuels are at least double the price of petrol or diesel, where yet again there is no coherent geen plan to reduce their cost, and like the E.U. farce on wood burning, they would still emit CO2 and NO2.

    Other than the E.U. presenting ever driver an EV within the next 11 years ICE vehicles using petrol will be manufactured and sold in the E.U. long after 2035, so just get over it



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Oil is a really useful product, very little goes to waste and the efficiency and productivity gains through its use are the primary reason Western governments in particular can extract so much taxation from it's consumption. The price of a barrel of oil rather than the end products is at a high level dictated by the intersection of demand and supply (it must be refined), the Ukraine war is only a temporary factor due to disruption and reorganization of supply routes , plus the destruction of a substantial part of Ukraines infrastructure and industry means demand for diesel is reallocated to fighting the war. I have made my view on the Ukraine situation clear on the other thread.

    The EU (in particular France) is very much about trade protectionism (As garlic man found out) and CBAM is the latest extension of such schemes. Politicians across Europe will eventually have to answer why all the "green jobs" are created in China, where they use coal to process the materials needed for wind turbines, solar panels and batteries, that must be imported by companies throughout the EU, that are subsidized by Europeans.

    National climate policies are driving new trends of trade protectionism, with the EU at the centre of many of these fights. We expect disputes between the EU and many developing nations, in particular, to intensify over the 2020s given the inability of many emerging markets to meet the EU’s environmental policy thresholds. source

    From the horses mouth, and given the outcome of recent Dutch elections, said horse may be heading for the knackers yard.

    Here comes European protectionism (2019)

    “As an economic giant we have tremendous leverage in our trade relations,” Frans Timmermans, the Dutch Socialist tasked with making good on the plan to make the EU climate neutral by 2050, said during his confirmation hearing in the European Parliament in October.

    Tools like the carbon border tax, he said, are “instruments … to level the playing field for European products if other countries do not go as far as us or refuse to go in the right direction.


    It should be clear from recent UN COP meetings that the rest of the world (India, China & US in particular), has no intention of following the EUs dictats and in effect told the likes of Mary Robinson, John Kerry and the German delegation (led by former Greenpeace director) the diplomatic speak equivalent of "go pound sand". That's why we see Eamon Ryan coming back rabbiting on about carbon capture storage schemes. CCS is yet another way for politicians and lobbyists to waste taxpayer funds (from 2017, EU blew over €500 million)

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    I’m in my late 60’s and I seem to recall talk about the underground for Dublin back in the early 2000’s. Yes he wasn’t in power then I grant him that but Gormley was in the late 2,000’s and the greens should have pursued this then , when they were in power.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    The Galway Bypass also had plenty of “progress” on paper



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    why didn't FF/FG pursue it then and make sure it happened? gormley wasn't the minister of transport at the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,381 ✭✭✭WishUWereHere


    No he wasn’t & I acknowledged as such, but he was the leader of a coalition party, who were in power.

    Post edited by WishUWereHere on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,055 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    If they would not waste money putting concrete slabs and metal poles on the road and making lane that barely any cyclist use pretty much blocking ambulances getting through as there is nowhere to move to let them go, then maybe they could move that metro project bit more significantly.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,993 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Depends on what you define progress as?

    He's had this brief for how long and we’re only getting to hearings in 2024?

    It hasn’t been on his radar at all and is more focused on window dressing than anything that can have a tangible impact.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I think you can blame An Bord Pleannala for most of that, an outfit that seems almost unfit for purpose, COVID would have slowed things down too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,200 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I've only ever seen parked cars blocking ambulances in Dublin, the Fire Brigade often tweet about being blocked by ignorant parking too. There have been some much needed segregated cycle lanes popping up which is great if you use a bike to get to work etc.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,787 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    This is a very puzzling exegesis. In the one hand you are against Europeans subsidizing Chinese imports. On the other hand you are disappointed anbout the prospect of adjustments for foreign goods to counteract the subsidies. Perhaps you think the CBAM is too little, too late?

    Sadly many of the points you raise are not new to me. They were articulated extensively on the neighbouring island in the second half of the last decade

    Thank you for your brilliant observation about how the intersection of demand and supply dictates the price of commodities.

    I don’t know what any of this has to do with the price of car parts. I take it you now accept that neither the CBAM nor your unspecified certification scheme will have any real influence on the price of German car parts.

    Post edited by antoinolachtnai on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,302 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    So you agree what you posted was incorrect?

    As I posted already numerous times I don't think diesel or petrol should be withdrawn. So why would I have to "just get over it"? maybe you can explain.



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