If Metrolink was scrapped, what are the alternatives?

I've only just discovered this thread, but I disagree here. Anywhere else I've been - Manchester, Munich, Strasbourg.... their trams all feel much faster in the city centre and go round corners much quicker. And none of this nonsense about trams not passing each other on corners - only in Dublin does one tram wait for the other to go around the bend.

Also of course every other place has tram prioritisation which is appalling in Dublin

Lolz, no chance. We have extremely favourable property laws and rights in this country.

I suspect we would have required a Constitutional Amendment.

And what people seem to forget is that in Ireland that self confidence was destroyed in 2008. We had gone from building lots of houses and public infrastructure projects to thinking of ourselves as mugs who got ahead of ourselves. The majority of this country veered into a snarky, Vincent Browne watching, territory from 2008 to 2013 or so. We quoted Morgan Kelly’s lines and derided Bertie Ahern’s quotes of the 2000s. The thing is that whilst this country was going to pop with credit going mad and the planning of houses was off, Bertie Ahern was not actually wrong about the fundamentals of our demographics. We were a rapidly growing country with youthful demographics that needed lots of housing. Our chickens came home to roost when we stopped building.

I do not think there is a chance in hell that any constitutional amendment that proposed limiting property rights at that time would have got through in that climate.

I am not a practising solicitor/barrister but did it in college. I’d actually love to be in college now to see how the the C19 period is being taught.

The C19 powers were pretty extraordinary. The State shied away from testing some of these in the courts (see hotel quarantine) and only dealt with the cranks who are too thick to figure out how to fight a battle.

My memory of a year doing Property was that there is an extraordinary level of protection afforded here. The policies of Railway Orders and CPOs need to fit into several tests, including proportionality and time limits. Whenever any infrastructure project is put forward, you’ll see these words all over them in engineering documents to protect their asses.

I don’t agree with this.

If you take a family in Shankill for example, Metrolink makes going to DCU far more likely. Get the DART and integrate at Tara for Metrolink north.

Same goes for people getting the bus or whatever. Also the case with Dublin Airport based jobs.

I think most Dubliners will know of someone close to them benefiting from it immediately.

That’s before we get to the leisure travel element of this.

It’s been said that there is only two other projects that have got this far in the planning process that were cancelled. We need to stop overegging this.

I'm pretty certain it'll be built assuming our economy stays relatively stable.

We needed it 20 years ago.

I agree we need more then just one line, really we should start planning the second line once this one starts construction.

Also it should be extended to Donabate in the north and Sandyford in the south.

I don't think it's true that it won't affect most Dubliners.

It will take a huge amount of cars and buses off the roads, I know you can argue "induced demand", but still it's true. Loads of buses won't be necessary anymore. This will improve congestion at least a little.

This allows Dublin bus to increase capacity in other areas also.

Also it impacts property prices all along it's route and spurs development too.

The likes of Ballymun and Northwood will see an explosion in development.

Also it'll accelerate the development of the Carlton Site on O'Connell Street which will impact every Dubliner.

This will be the busiest station other than Tara St maybe so will see huge footfall so the developers are more likely to proceed with it.

Hang on, the Metro North railway order was only granted in 2010, and lasted for 10 years. We were back borrowing on the money markets by 2013, if it hadn’t been cancelled in 2011 could it not have been revived? It was a short term decision, we are paying for it now.

Where in Ballymun or Northwood could be further developed though ? Genuine question btw I’m just not seeing it.

im certainly with you on taking cars off the road… but as always in the stupid country, good ideas are kicked down the road again and again.

Why the snark?

You follow up with what exactly I said, that we would have needed a constitutional amendment.

That said, I don’t think there’s many democracies where open ended planning permissions or railway orders could be put in place that limits someone’s fundamental rights.

You seem very put out that I stated the obvious.

Do you know how CPOs, Railway Orders etc work? Have you read the Metrolink one?

You seem to be devolving with the above here which is just incoherent waffle at this stage.

For the record, I would have happily seen these planning permissions roll forward. But I also know that is not the reality of the country we live in. Even more we get to the political realities, it wasn’t passing mustard.

Not ten times what we already have, no. But if you add up all the plans (or, at least, proposals) which were never built the poster is not that far off. e.g. Metro North and Metrolink is 2 plans, but only one can be built. Proposals for underground rail in Dublin started 50 years ago...

German taxpayers or those of any other member state didn't give us a cent during the bailout.