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FI Charts ( T120+ onwards) Winter 2023/2024 **READ MOD NOTE IN FIRST

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,753 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes,something could be afoot- a foot of snow. Ahem! Have a good one everyone!




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭Hooter23


    Possible storms around the new year...then the weather pattern that we had at the end of november starts to return with cold from the north and north east into january..



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Long range charts showing strong signs of blocking in the Atlantic along with Scandi heights as we begin the second week of January. AO and NAO heading deep into negative territory by the same time period and it looks like a displacement of the vortex is going to happen at a minimum. Quite the prospect considering we will be in mid winter should deep cold materialise. All aboard the rollercoaster again.

    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Will take a look at the models when I get back home in a few hours but it does look like Winter is coming!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭munsterlegend


    The UK Met Office outlook certainly seem confident of a colder January. Just how cold remains to seen. Obviously doesn't guarantee anything for here but increases the chances anyway.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    While I was away over the Christmas the charts have been trending colder. A few of the recent GFS operational runs brought us into the freezer at some points. The latest GFS 12z operational is not as cold as recent runs, however there is clearly a cold trend appearing during the 1st week of January and into the second week. I think a cold spell is looking likely during the first half of January but how cold it gets very much remains to be seen and maybe we can see closer to the time if we're going to end up with another dry and cold spell or something more wintry with snow possible. It will probably take another week of modeling watching to firm up on the next potential cold spell to see where we are at.

    Mild weather looks as if it's going to be off the table over the next couple of weeks with cool or cold weather the most likely outcome. We look reasonably unsettled over the coming 7 to 10 days with perhaps a drying trend towards the end. Any precipitation that falls is likely to be cold rain with potential for wintry falls as well particularly over high ground. We will need a few more days of model watching to firm up on wintry potential for low lying areas as we are not there yet with quiet a bit of scatter and uncertainty to how cold it will become.

    The AO/NAO forecast has quiet a bit of scatter as well but it looks like negative to deeply negative as we progress into January.

    As for the warming we are still largely looking similar to the way it was in the run up to Christmas with majority of the GFS ensembles going for a displacement event over Europe with a minority option going for a split. Some of the models are suggesting that the upcoming warming won't be the last with another warming starting to build after next weeks warming event. Plenty more model watching to come with a rollercoaster of emotions likely in the coming weeks.

    The ECM looks more keen to bring a reversal of the zonal winds compared to the GFS but a major weakening of the PV looks very likely, if this leads to a reversal remains to be seen.

    The ECM extended is going to town on northern blocking throughout January with plenty of high pressure over Greenland and Low pressure over Northern Europe dragging down northerly or north-easterly winds.





  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    The GEFS and the ECM Ens differ in terms of cold lines with the latter showing a colder solution than the former. We have a negative NAO and AO as we head into January so perhaps, we will see a merging of the two forecasts before too long. You would expect a trend to start showing from day 10-12 onward pretty soon. In the next 7 to 10 days, a cool Atlantic regime is favoured.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    overall the GFS has trended much milder on last night and this mornings runs compared to the runs over Christmas and up to the 12z yesterday and has dropped the idea of northerlies or easterlies for now. I feel this might revert back to a colder outcome within the next week but overall the first week and into the second weekof January looks average with mostly zonal Atlantic conditions.

    Post edited by Gonzo on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Just taking a look at the CFS for what it is worth and it shows mostly mild and zonal for first half of January and then much colder conditions for second half of January and lasting well into February with plenty of opportunities for wintry conditions if it verified.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭pureza


    Isn't it a known fault of Xmas model output that they are less accurate due to a lack of observations data from ships and planes



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,753 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yes, I have heard that, but it's debatable. Strat forecasts are supposed to be more reliable, and things have gone a bit pear shaped there. We will probably get a polar maritime airflow at times during January, but it's starting to look like we maybe looking to late January into February for something from the North or North East. An SSW during early January would have been ideal. One later in January probably means we will be looking to February now. I hope I am wrong about this, and the weaker zonal winds will enable us to get a cold spell during Mid January. Let's hope the models have to play catch up on this

    Post edited by nacho libre on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭pureza




  • Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭bazlers


    I think the replies are possibly more accurate than the forecasting : )



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,340 ✭✭✭pureza


    I don't

    Those are anomaly charts showing continental temps 5 or 6c generally above normal

    The orange colours just make it look dramatic

    The anomaly is because of where the jetstream is

    But look north of the jet stream,7 or 8c colder than normal

    A negative NAO would bring that cold flooding south and that's his point

    He's right about 7 timed out of 10



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,753 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Joe Bastardi often gets it wrong for Europe. Even if he is right some parts of Europe going colder due to a negative NAO doesn't automatically mean we will. We have some charts showing the Iberian heights still in play in fi, as long as that remains the case real cold will not flood south as we saw in the run up to Christmas. It may happen due to the drop off in Zonal winds but I wouldn't bet the farm on it happening at the same time.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Its starting to take on a very familiar feel where we see promising charts for a few days that don't materialise and now we look back into relatively average or mildish zonal flow into the first half of January. After that the clock starts to tick and we need something happen fast. The upcoming warming looks like it's not going to be a significant SSW so we may need another go at that before it's too late. If a major SSW does not happen before the end of January then we could be looking at final week of February or March for proper cold prospects. Charts today not encouraging but hopefully we will see positive changes over the next week that will stick and not fall apart.

    Still time for a mid January cold spell and proper cold to end January but we need to see the models become much more exciting over the coming week.



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    The Canadian GEM is more like it in terms Atlantic blocking and cold intrusions from the NE/NE. The evolution is displayed below.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,753 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Well some more promising charts are rolling out just now, but we've been here before in the run up to Christmas. Without proper downwelling of the warming in the strat it's going to be difficult to get heights poleward, any ridging in the right place maybe temporary as a result. I agree with you that we could get a major SSW eventually, but like you say it could be all too late for a proper cold spell during peak winter. Which is disappointing considering how rare cold spells in January are these days.

    Post edited by nacho libre on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭esposito


    00Z ECM and GEM at 240 hours. Can we build on this and get into the more reliable?




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,753 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Cool and dry if this came about. With the carrot being dangled for more. I would take this as I am sick of the seemingly never ending rain now, but at least it's mild:)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Gfs 06z (top) showing colder members compared to 00z. Nothing in what I am seeing screams deep cold yet though


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    The ICON turning the Atlantic tap off at the end of its run with some semblances of a blocking pattern.


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    UKMO and JMA throwing up some interesting outcomes too


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Crazy difference in the GFS op runs each time. 18Z top compared to 12z below.

    The pressure mean however, is a little more interesting and of more value in terms of trying to spot a pattern. It shows high pressure centred over or close to Ireland with heights over Greenland, meaning a reprieve from the incessant wind and rain.

    The GFS panel for 240hrs shows the various perturbations for the time period, with many showing high pressure building to our west or over us.


    We are unlikely going to be in a zonal setup beyond week 1 of January. That is all anyone can really read with any degree of certainty from the above.

    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,753 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    The Control run looks nice. Unfortunately I feel the op run maybe closer to what transpires. A high over or close to us wouldn't be too bad, but I fear we might back to square soon enough after it given the modelling of the vortex.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,877 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    Looking at the models anyone looking for a beast from the east or snow away from the usual Atlantic hill sleet can go back to sleep but maybe a week of the Atlantic slowing down with a temporary dryer setup is possible in the short term and that alone will suit most people and just about everyone who visits here is sick of the relentless rain, drizzle, waterlogging and wind.



  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    The most likely outcome based on nothing other than last experience. While the number of very cold members is increasing somewhat, sub 5c hpas only account for about 25 percent of members from 8th Jan on.


    The pressure readings are a little more clear


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭esposito


    Please be right ECM

    Get the cold in first and then down the line…

    216 hours:

    240 hrs:




  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    00z ECM op run was an outlier regarding that very cold solution but trend is for increasingly colder weather. Nothing severe


    Gfs006z op run mild solution also was somewhat of an outlier on the opposite side of the scale. The control run was much colder

    Overall, the number of colder members is on the rise. Latest top compared to 18z bottom


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



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  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    ECM also sowing up more colder members than the 12z yesterday (bottom). A minus 14.8c hpa popping up there


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



This discussion has been closed.
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