Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Stratosphere watch 2023-24

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Yes that shows a highly amplified phase 3 by the end of the GFS run. Although it's not stratosphere related which this thread is about.

    This is what an amplified phase 3 January looks like historically during an El Niño. Significant high latitude blocking with deep low pressure across Europe. This would probably be cold and wet. Very slight adjustment southward and it would be very snowy. This is without considering a weaker than average vortex and other things.

    Given it's the end of the GFS run, not to be taken seriously. Could well be not as amplified just like the recent passage through phases 6-8 which flopped and time lag needs to be considered too.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    A big PV stretch is evident in the lower stratosphere but placement of lobes isn't great with some of the energy ending up over Greenland.

    Very poor GEFS with a minor SSWE followed by a swift recovery by a significant minority - most keeping it around 20 m/s as far out as the forecast period goes.

    We've lost the Ural blocking high which is a big loss as far as stratospheric disruption is concerned.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Without the Ural high there may not be further warmings to bring about an ssw later on. I am not confident the weakening of the zonal winds will be enough to bring about a cold spell.

    I fear the promising model runs we see this morning won't last, with any high ridging to the north west collapsing. If that's the case, I hope it is on top of us so at least we can have some settled and frosty weather. The worst case scenario is residual energy left in Greenland churning out low pressure with our name on it while parts of Europe are in the freezer



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    We are back in familiar straw clutching territory it seems hoping that everything lines up at the perfect time. We are banking on a major SSW to save the final few weeks of winter and with each day that passes we are delaying the chances of cold and snow in the heart of winter and then we'll be looking at the end of February for a consolation prize before throwing in the towel.oh the joys of being a snow bunny I would like at least one major snow event before I retire in 2040.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I remember years ago( back in the late 90) reading an article about climate change and how snow would become increasingly rare in Ireland by 2015 onwards. I dismissed it at the time but I am not sure now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    We can regard the major SSW as a major flop I think albeit there was one single run with the EC46 mean getting to reversal..

    A minor SSW isn't the end of the world but it's the swift recovery indicated by the GEFS, even accounting for their strong vortex bias, and the loss of the Ural high that concerns me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    It's all going pear shaped, without the Ural high we probably won't get a major ssw. I would expect to see a change in the longer range ec 46 output now. We may as you say get lucky and eek out a cold spell due to the drop off in zonal winds, but I won't be shocked if any mid latitude block is fleeting. Over on netweather they were saying a major ssw was "nailed on".

    Nothing is ever nailed on when it comes to cold. It's only ever nailed on when it comes to us getting rain.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Around 1200 AD Giraldus Cambrensis, in his Topographia Hibernica, wrote extensively on Irish Climate. We were in the Middle Ages Warm Period. I read it at 17 and the following always stuck in my head 'In Ireland it snows very little, and when it does snow it rarely stays on the ground longer than a day'.

    We're at those sort of temps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Nailed on my ass. I even said in my post on 21st December: "I'm pretty torn to be honest. More runs needed." This indicating something just wasn't clicking with me to say a major SSW were to definitely happen. Was right to think this way. Netweather is full of hypers, least Boards is more grounded (although sometimes can veer towards the other extreme).

    In some other news, the PV displacement will bring another risk of nacreous clouds. In fact, the whole of Ireland being engulfed by 10hPa temps <-80C according to the GFS on New Year's Day 2024 and 2nd January which is remarkable. So if you did not get to see them from the previous historic outbreak a week ago due to cloud cover, here's another chance. Remember they're best observed at sunrise or sunset (before and after) due to the low lying sun lighting them up like iridescence whilst they'll be much more washed out in the middle of the day when the sun is higher in the sky.




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    If we do end up getting a ssw this winter I really hope it's no later then early Feb. Knowing our luck it probably will be later. Not interested in the chance of snow in march etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Any credence in this model?





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    This is why you should post in the strat thread over there to give a bit more balance to the hopecasting that goes on at times, but in fairness it's not as bad on the strat thread as the main model discussion thread.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    That's just the GFS, just a different way of looking at 10hPa. Can see it's trying to split the two vortices.

    There is still to be interest to be had in terms of the stratosphere when all is said and done. We are not getting a major SSW at least for now during the second week of January which would have been great to re-enforce the idea of blocking down the line when the MJO cycles back towards the Maritime Continent.

    There's still evidence of a split on the charts, such as below from the ECMWF. This chart is also for 30hPa which is more relevant for our weather than 10hPa (where the technical major SSW has to be reached). One small lobe going over towards North America whilst the other piece of the energy which is much bigger towards Siberia. I do not particularly like how close that NA lobe is to Greenland which could be important for building heights properly northward but definitely a split here.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    There is some slight hints for another down spike in U-60N in the third week of January after this minor SSW is through. No evidence to suggest this would become a major event either but it continues the trend of a weaker than average vortex for the time of year.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    One third of the EPS suite showing a reversal (major SSW) for the second attempt of SSW. It really is deja vu isn't it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    If it does happen, I wonder could that shake things up for the worse or prolong any cold outbreak. Some long range models have it colder than average right out to the end of February. No doubt we would get milder periods in any case. Even the winter of 1963 had milder periods. I am not saying we are about to see a repeat of 1963 either:)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    There's the minor warming spike now. Much more muted at 30hPa for now, should see a rise through the next week.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    wrong thread (edit) Sorry

    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Wrong thread WolfeEire, this is the stratosphere thread.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I wonder will further warmings be enough to keep the Alantic quiet overall and that we might be better off without a major ssw. Also is the fact the eqo is in an easterly phase aiding our cause?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Sometimes all you can do is just laugh.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Maybe i have taken up his post wrongly.

    Looking at chart i guess heights into Greenland are not as strong but they are there for iceland stretching to Snadinavia. This would match MTCs forecast albeit maybe not having as much strength. Ive no doubt the PV will strengthen in time hopfully we will have our snow by then. All speculation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    If you are not aware of it already, check out the strat thread on Netweather too. The poster Lorenzo has a good post about the fine margins of all this between having a decent cold spell and not having one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Cheers Nacho il take a look. I dont have enough knowledge on the subject to be posting in here. Ive more questions than answers. Just Judahs post seemed very strange at the time given all the signals.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    In that case neither do i, but like you say it's the way to learn. A poster on that thread I mentioned was saying Cohen is talking about spring time. I am not too sure about that.

    Check this link out too:https://skybrary.aero/articles/sudden-stratospheric-warming-ssw



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Had taken a break from here for a few days because with life being troublesome, my posts would have come across as antagonistic with lots of toy throwing. I'm still not feeling the greatest but enough to update on the stratosphere and I think it's about time that I did.

    There continues to be the signal of another attempt of a minor stratospheric warming through the third week of January. The most recent available 12z EPS had 46/51 of the ensemble members showing a reversal or getting to major SSW criteria at 10hPa 60N. The EC46 mean is also fairly close to 0 m/s. The GEFS drop out about 8 m/s on the 16th/17th and not a single perturbation gets to reversal. Given what has happened recently and the lack of a Ural block, I am more willing to believe in the GEFS here rather than the EPS and be surprised if the EPS do not backtrack.

    Does the fact it is a minor or major SSW matter? Not in this case no. I have already answered this but seems it needs to be reminded. If we are to get a major event, we're not talking February 2018 or January 2009 levels of reversal getting down to below -20 m/s. We're talking within -5 m/s and 10 m/s. There won't be a significant difference in impacts from this sort of range. The stratospheric polar vortex is in a very weak state to where it should be for the time of year regardless of which exact speed you get. Also, the major SSW criteria is a bit arbitrary. It refers to ONLY getting easterlies at 10hPa in the stratosphere and 60N over the North Pole. The lower stratosphere is of more importance to us.

    As far out as the GFS operational run goes (+384 hrs), the U-60N doesn't get any higher than 13 m/s at 30hPa which is weak. The SPV is very much displaced over Europe throughout its run. There is splitting going on through the current week and the third week as you can see with the daughter vortex placed over Europe and a smaller vortex lobe over towards North America. That hasn't changed at all despite the chaotic modelling for our actual weather with regarding this retrograding of high pressure through the third week of the month. This is set to continue for at least another week or so before the two combine with one another again though remain displaced from its normal position over the North Pole and further minor warmings occur around the Pacific side.


    50hPa even lower down is identical with a SPV split visible and a very weak U-60N of 8 m/s.

    Additionally, Amy Butler has put out a great blog post regarding the recent "failed" major SSW and an in-depth explanation to understand why it did - a lot to learn from this. She also confirms the split in the lower stratosphere that I mention:

    Meanwhile the vortex has changed from being displaced towards Europe to becoming more elongated across North America and Scandinavia, with the possibility of the polar vortex splitting into two lobes in the lowermost stratosphere- an indication of how unstable the vortex has become.

    We can see this split imprinted on the troposphere. I have marked the two vortices to make it as clear as day to see. See how the Scandi vortex is bigger than the NA one, as per the stratosphere. In between the two, we see a retrograding high pressure to Greenland with high pressure right over the pole. The trouble has been how big will this high pressure system build and force any low pressure systems to undercut. The strength of the high is not driven by the stratosphere, warm air advection is what inflates it coming from the mid-Atlantic via that vortex over North America. It is looking like there will not be sufficient WAA to develop into a proper anticyclone, rather weak ridging which may still be enough to force low pressure systems southward at least for a time but its weak nature and northerly latitude means Ireland is vulnerable to these systems so could be proper snow makers for some whilst others will be graced with cold rain. The strength of this ridge or blocking high pressure will determine how long cold stays around as MJO passes through the Maritime Continent (zonal).

    If you're looking for intense sea effect type showers and a long fetched easterly wind, I think you'll be disappointed and it's time to look for something else in the meantime to chase or wait patiently for the next attempt in February.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    You would have to say the latest GFS run is reflecting those comments. Of course it's just one run, though.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    The latest EPS 12z has 50 out of 51 perturbations just about showing a reversal next week on the 17th January. You can see just how close it is though, probably the weakest major SSW I've ever seen if that were to verify. Graph via Allan Ruffman.

    GEFS continue to be disinterested in any chance of a reversal, not a single member still getting to reversal.

    What makes this technical major SSW if it were to verify according to the EPS even stranger is how the 10hPa temperature doesn't rise all that much, that is at least to what you'd expect during a SSW. The recent minor event more significant.

    The latest GFS operational bottoms out at 2 m/s at 10hPa 60N which make no mistake is a very very weak stratospheric polar vortex but not a major SSW. See my most recent post on relevance of this outside of technicality.

    Very peculiar situation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I am lost. I wonder what effect will this have on the trop and will it be quick given the weak state of the trop polar vortex already? Could it mean the zonal winds when they do recover will have a quicker impact on our weather too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    I'm at a loss and very confused at this whole situation. Just going to copy and paste what bluearmy has said and agree with it for now.

    The day 15 eps mean and spreads scream Greenland TPV very loudly and upper ridge into Iberia = flat zonal.

    Now the extended ens have been promising a return to a NE Canadian vortex for some time - it’s taken longer to get there than first modelled but it’s now looking very likely indeed.

    The only caveat I have is that the trop continues to lead the dance and we know how unpredictable trop modelling is as week 2 progresses. there may be feedback issues that are consolidating a strengthening which may not verify in that fashion. Having said that, it was noted about a week ago that the modelling wanted to stretch the spv from Barents to e Canada, split it, then return the Canadian segment back to Svalbard. We know from experience that this east - west - east movement of a coupled SPV/TPV will usually fire up the northern arm. It looks like the split that enables the n Atlantic height rise will also be responsible for the fired up jet as the two segments are rejoined on our side of the NH. In addition, the split Canadian segment dropping into North America doesn’t help as it increases the temp differential which leads to an even stronger jet and the displaced nature of the SPV our side means that this movement is at a southerly latitude which means the jet is aimed at us. 

    As nick alluded earlier, there are sniffs of disruption which could force that jet into Iberia but that’s not what the NWP is showing.

    I do have nagging doubts on this but it’s rare that the modelling for week 2 is wrong when there is so much agreement across the NWP.

    There currently aren’t enough rogue ens members to justify any doubts (actually the 06z GEFS have a few so maybe need to see what happens on the 12z EPS).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    The GFS 12z operational saw a full 24 hours of just barely reaching reversal from Tuesday into Wednesday. Tuesday's mean daily value would probably be negative resulting in the weakest major SSW I would have ever seen. Doesn't deserve to be called a MAJOR.

    ECM has been similar from what I've heard though runs a day behind publicly. Of course I'm referring to the OP, not the EC46.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    Two questions @sryanbruen if you don't mind.

    Do the zonal winds reverse when they go into minus territory and what happens when they get to zero or very close to as forecast?

    Also, what's going on with the control run here?


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Yeah reversal or "easterlies" is when the U-60N go negative, even something as close as -0.1 m/s is a technical reversal and for a major SSW to be officially designated, a mean daily value below 0 m/s needs to be achieved at 60N 10hPa. If it doesn't then it's classified as a minor SSW regardless of how much warming actually happens. Thing is, we've never had a situation like this as far as I'm aware. Normally these events occur via huge heat fluxes and lots of wave activity via Ural block/Aleutian low coming off the back of strong PV events which haven't happened.

    The closest I can think of is the failed major SSW of January 2017. The U-60N dropped to a mean daily value of 0.1 m/s on January 27th 2017. I remember talking this event up for a few weeks at the time following the Christmas to New Year flop. What made matters worse in disappointment was the continent had genuine cold - the blocking high over Ireland, as January 2017 was very dry here, favoured them. So got excited at the prospect for something to maybe finally force the high into a position favourable for us. The ECM ensembles showed the reversal at a moderate chance getting down to -10 m/s at one point, solidly major SSW territory. Didn't even reach reversal in the end.

    NAM dripping paint cross section shows this minor SSW probably led to the February 2017 easterly and Scandinavian high. However, there was a lack of cold air to tap into and things never set up quite right for us to get a snowy easterly - pffff as if that never happens here.

    2023-24 finds itself in a strange position to where we've had a weaker than average stratospheric polar vortex for most of the season so far aside from the brief spike up to average in late December which would be followed by the recent minor SSW that peaked on January 5th and likely aided in the tropospheric polar vortex splitting this week but only temporary. We don't get much of a renewed warming for this secondary attempt making it seem even more weird if we do get a technical major event designated.

    I didn't get to see that control run before it was replaced by future runs but I see two possibilities:

    1. It sees record-breaking wave-2 activity occur during late January/early February that would lead onto a very major warming through mid-February at a similar time to 2018.
    2. Something went wrong in the modelling or coding on the TWO site to show it going mental. Weatheriscool which is the site I mostly use for the GEFS didn't show any huge outliers like that on its 0z update.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    That's brilliant, @sryanbruen. Thank you very much. I learned something today!

    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 954 ✭✭✭WolfeEire
    Clare (410ft asl)


    www.x.com/wolfeeire



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Too bad it won't last long and the reversal will be fairly weak. I am convinced that's the real reason this cold spell has been diluted and the next one will be similar, any blocking will likely struggle to get into Greenland and be maintained. At least this time we won't be fooled by any eye candy charts at day 8



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    Though perhaps a cold spell in Feb if we get one,might be better/ longer lasting as the pv at that time of the winter can often be less strong. Any blocking may have a better chance.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    never again am I spending 3 weeks going after cold and snow potential only for it to end up a busted flush from a snow perspective. If the models aren't modeling some sort of decent easterly in the next cold spell I won't be putting nearly as much time into it.

    All we can do is hope that this reversal leads to something half decent even if it's just for a few days.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I hope you're right but even an overall weak pv as we see can wreck blocking. It's remarkable that the pv has never really got going this year.

    I just won't be believing any charts that show a snowy cold outbreak until its stil showing at 2 or 3 days out. The 2018 cold outbreak was counted down seamlessly. If only all cold spells could be like that instead of all the wobbles. Some people like that aspect of it, but it's not for me .



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,980 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I've had enough wobbles and busts for the year so if we get another shot in February I want it to be the real deal without the twists and turns. IF we can't get that i'd settle for a month of high pressure/ dry weather without feeling let down.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 700 ✭✭✭bazlers


    Yes once bitten twice shy when it comes to cold chases. We have more bies than if you slept in a den of mozzies! (Im sure they sleep in dens 🤔)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    So today is the day that we possibly see the most non-major technical major sudden stratospheric warming on record declared, wow that's a mouthful but if I ever seen an event undeserving of being called "major", this would be it.

    We have a very small window of reversal for the next 12 hours or so and for this event to be designated, the daily mean value needs to be under 0 m/s as previously stated. GFS showed the reversal happening from 06z on Tuesday so it should be designated if it holds.

    This "major" SSW is actually aiding in the disappearance of -NAO via downward wave reflection, according to Simon Lee and I'll allow him to explain. Figure via Weatheriscool.

    It's possible that the criteria for a major sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) will be marginally reached on Tuesday 16 January (daily-mean 10 hPa 60°N zonal-mean winds reversing to easterlies).

    However, this event doesn't come with the usual fanfare of an SSW...

    The stratospheric polar vortex has been weak (negative NAM) since the start of 2024, when a minor stratospheric warming occurred (no U10 hPa 60°N wind reversal).

    This has already coupled with the troposphere, associated with the current Greenland Blocking/negative NAO regime.

    What is expected to happen over the next few days actually seems to be the "end" of the weak vortex, which is not typical for a major SSW.

    Upward wave activity immediately becomes unusually low or even negative (reflection), allowing the vortex to begin recovering radiatively.

    In fact, the expected acceleration of the vortex winds (at 10 hPa) after the reversal is remarkably dramatic -- back up to *above normal* strength in one week. That's almost as dramatic as the deceleration that would normally occur in a major SSW!

    All-in-all, this "major" warming (if you can call it that!) does not appear to have any of the average characteristics of a major SSW. It is a fascinatingly odd event, but it does not appear to be a harbinger of an extended disrupted vortex & negative NAO -- perhaps the opposite.

    What a peculiar "event" but a very frustrating one for coldies I'm sure to read!



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Well based off that I don't see how we are going to have a hlb to dominate much of February. The other drivers may lead to a high nearby but I can't seen it being able to extend far enough north

    So I fear when the UKMO talk of lower chance of milder and unsettled weather that will change to us all going milder. I can see a sudden flip in the likes of Glosea and the ec46 to a less blocked outcome, especially if it was predicated on the idea of a true major ssw happening with the dramatic effects it can have on the trop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭Mr Bumble


    According to this chap, we had a weak and brief wind reversal in the stratosphere a few days ago with potential for impact in a few weeks. He does mention a "warm outcome" for us.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7DdYaOtOLI



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    We have already seen the impact if Simon Lee's explanation two posts above is to be believed and any "warm outcome" is unlikely to be directly related to this very very weak major sudden stratospheric warming (likely the weakest of all-time).

    We can see the radiative strengthening of the stratospheric polar vortex aloft using the NAM forecast below (the blue colours top left indicating +NAM or similar to positive Arctic Oscillation conditions). This is a normal procedure following major sudden stratospheric warming events, particularly in early and mid-winter when there's still plenty of time for radiative cooling.

    Very positive AO surface conditions expected for at least a week before a more muted signal appears with rather neutral conditions though still leaning on the slightly positive side. An indication of low pressure not moving anywhere fast away from the North Pole and blocking is more difficult to develop with such conditions.

    All those seasonal models showing a very blocked February in the high latitudes not looking good right now.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,089 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Yeah. The same seasonal models that predicted a great summer in 2023. There is a lot of noise about why this SSW might not deliver, but the simple explanation is we need more than a weak reversal that barely lasts 24 hours. As you said it's only a major ssw in name.

    This is why I am very sceptical of any high getting far enough north to deliver snowy cold. I am just hoping we stay settled and don't see a sudden flip to an unsettled outlook for much of February.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,673 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Just looked back through the C3S MSLP anomalies for the summer months over various monthly updates (March-June) and I don't see any particular strong signal on the mean from any of them for the summer. Neither indicating a great or terrible summer. Of course you will see better signals in individual models but I tend to use the mean when viewing these models.

    Meanwhile, the February blocking signal goes back many many months and has been evident in every single update of the C3S suite means. This would be a massive bust.

    Fail to see how this will come off unless we see a 180 swing in the model output with that vortex parked over Greenland which can well happen but...




  • Advertisement
Advertisement