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This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭maddness




  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Yes we have seen a few sub €30k 77kWh ID.4s already on this thread. My mate just bought a slightly damaged one for €18.5k, with all the required rear panels and bumper included (from another car in the same colour). That is going to be a very low / zero depreciation car for the next few years!



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,021 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    It's all market correction, normally the early adopters suffer radical depreciation, think the initial Model S owners.....but then Brexit/COVID and supply chain upheaval, a result of which a lot of 2016-2021 adopters essentially had free EVs for that period and actually made money selling on EVs. I drove a Model S for 2 years and had it essentially free and sold it +€6k at the end of the two years, same with my Leaf where I essentially broke even after 4 years of ownership, sold both slightly before the peak but happy to be out on top, rarely happens and won't be happening again....

    My stuff for sale on Adverts inc. EDDI, hot water cylinder, roof rails...

    Public Profile active ads for slave1 (adverts.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Bought my first Tesla Model S for €24k in 2020 (from Tesla with 2 year bumper to bumper warranty) and sold 2 years later privately for €36k

    Those were the days 😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    It’s just simple market forces. There will be winners on the way up, and losers on the way down - and people in the middle who will neither win nor lose and won’t care either way :)

    the only garage person I know tells me they are very reluctant to take in second hand EVs on trade-in while the market is volatile, so the prices offered will account for that risk, which is completely fair enough imho. It’s a business after all.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Did you keep that out of warranty Tesla or didn't take the risk of big bills out of warranty?

    You said you weren't scared of the warranty and didn't expect anything to go wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    It still had battery and drivetrain warranty when I sold it. I upgrade to a newer facelift Model S. Which was almost out of bumper to bumper warranty when I bought it. The main reason I bought the new one is because it has FSD, an area I am very interested in. My first one didn't even have auto pilot. I fitted an open pilot system to it myself.

    And before you ask, yes my new one has taken a big depreciation hit since I got it. More than gain I made on the first car. Then again, I have been driving Tesla Model S for 4 years now with very little total cost of ownership. Roughly the same of that of a 4-5 year old Toyota Corolla



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    It’s always amused me that there have been about 4,000 model 3’s registered in Ireland and there’s only 44 ads on Carzone or donedeal today - almost all of them at unsellable prices, suggesting owners love their cars and aren’t selling - or if they are, want unrealistic prices.

    theres literally one one or two ad’s that you might consider good value, in the whole country.

    So the best value model 3 is still a new one, which is a pretty bizarre scenario for any market.

    eventually that will have to reset, it’s just that most were sold in 21-23, so the 2nd hand volumes will start to rise in 24/25

    Post edited by sk8board on


  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    I am only asking because you said many times you would have no problem owning an out of warranty Tesla and would do so, but you never did and I knew you wouldn't, you are much too risk adverse for that dice

    In fairness you have done well, it was FSD that caught you in the end, something that every automaker has given up on as its pure fantasy, it will never work



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    We might see a few in January now with the refresh model being assigned to Irish owners over the last few days.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭listermint




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭poker--addict


    Prices absolutely have to/are dropping. There are used cars sitting on forecourts for months, ICE and EV. I see no marked difference in where both technologies are headed. They are returning to more usual depreciation, but doing so slowly.

    Flag one is cars sat on forecourts and done deal for months and months. When prices are on the way up everyone in the value chain is happy to roll with the direction. Prices takes time to drop, for new cars there are multiple stakeholders in the value chain, all keen to capitalise on the price rise, all it takes is part of the value chain to resist price drops and retain everyone else's costs remain too high, and they cant cut their price, until squeezed by the consumers decisions.

    Consumers will ultimately dictate the market by holding onto their car another year, switching "loyalty" , or delaying purchase of a second car (me).

    There will be some cars which shift to equilibrium quicker, generally driven by supply and demand in used market, and the cap price (new car price). I was looking at a Peugeot 5008 recently, there are not so many GT around - the 2001 was more or less the same price it was bought for, the new model was up nearly 50%. Wages have not gone up 50%! The situation isn't sustainable, and that is before throwing the Chinese options with brand recognition growing by the month.

    😎



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo




  • Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Don't buy it frankly. You quote natural sales in various posts yet disregard natural sales cycles of ownership. It doesn't make any sense. The car is simply so good regardless of age that majority of owners keep it forever..



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    I think there’s an element of truth to this - a lot of early Tesla owners weren’t necessarily trading out of expensive cars, they were trading out of old diesels and things. Those guys can’t magic money into their pockets to change and in all likelihood are just going to drive the cars for years



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    You don’t have to buy it. There were 4000 M3’s sold according to a post above. Yet there’s only 44 cars for sale. That to me shows the vast majority of owners are keeping their car.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Well, you knew wrong. I was about to swap my 2017 fully warrantied Model S for an out of all warranty 2014 one, even battery warranty gone. With obviously a large chunk of cash my way. The seller changed his mind before we could close the deal

    I wouldn't hesitate to do a similar deal again, but I would be eager not to give up the FSD



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    You're not wrong but that situation was way, way worse this time last year where the cheapest 3 year old Tesla Model 3 for sale in the country at about €45k was nearly the same as it cost brand new. Crazy stuff. The combination of the end of the car shortages and the Tesla Model Y price cuts killed that off. The cheapest Model 3 for sale in the country now are at about €25k



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭Spipov


    25! Where? Now that im seeing highlands getting dates, it might be possible to pick up a model 3 over an id3. That ill be down for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board


    For (relatively normal) buyers simply searching on Carzone or donedeal, there’s none below €30k bar someone prepared to drop. A high miler for €26k this week was gone in 48hrs.

    if I wanted a 2nd hand m3 today, there’s literally zero value in the market.

    early Tesla owners like their Tesla.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,578 ✭✭✭User1998


    There was a 2020 asking €26k only last week. Sold within a few days.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,999 ✭✭✭Spipov




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,335 ✭✭✭sk8board




  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    Oh right, you got lucky again 😂

    Why the love of FSD?

    Its no better than what other manufacturers have now

    How Tesla, BMW, Ford, GM and Mercedes driver assist systems compare | TechCrunch



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Surely it doesn't need mentioning that if you are in the market for a bargain, you need to be very alert, check several times a day, and be ready to do a deal immediately. That's how I got most of the bargains in my life. 80% work, 20% luck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 65,387 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Interest in AI, machine learning and the impact on society over the next few decades of machines replacing people. If you think others are ahead of Tesla in self driving, you have no idea of the tech behind it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,931 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Or the normal life cycle is people tend to trade in 3 years. New models out and the people are shocked at the trade price tesla are giving and thus forced to hold on.

    As I said normal market suits when you want it to but when you don't you disregard it. All 4000 are super satisfied and don't fancy a change or upgrade. Seems unlikely don't you think.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,578 ✭✭✭User1998


    No, I thought that one is still for sale? It was a standard range with 80k miles



  • Registered Users Posts: 106 ✭✭gammon199


    I only know of one Tesla owner, he bought it for 57,000e in 2020 with FSD ( he really regrets the FSD, cost nearly 10k alone and its absolutely useless ), its worth about 24,000e now and he's keeping it till the wheels come off, has lost €200 a week in depreciation for 3 years straight and yes he came from a trouble free old Toyota like many did. He has looked at VW, Cupra and BYD range but trade in values have been awful, he's stuck with the Tesla



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    I don’t follow normal cycles in fairness, I’ve had 4 cars since 2020. 192 were the first model 3 in Ireland, so we should be seeing many for sale after the first 3 year cycle as you call it now. And I think we did last year. That number for sale has reduced now.

    Of you have a good car and no need to change, then don’t sell. The cars are probably worth 50% of the new price now so normal depreciation curve in effect I’d imagine. whether people want to sell now is a personal choice, it’s hard justifying a perfectly fine 2020 model 3 being sold just to have a new number plate on a new model 3mor BYD etc.



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