Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Finochet · 29-12-2023 10:21am

Is there a prop out there who can tell me if it's possible to stop pushing when your side of scrum is moving forward? Porter seems to be able to outscrum most tight heads but if his own tighthead is not able to match the progress the scrum will inevitably wheel and Porter will be penalized for boring in. Either he is unable to determine direction is West rather than north OR once it starts the momentum is impossible to stop and he will cop the blame anyway? . Can anyone enlighten me please?

pickarooney · 29-12-2023 10:53am

If pretty much every ref is pinging you for boring in, then the likelikhood is you're boring in. The alternative is that no refs know how a scrum works in which case you really need to adapt your scrummaging to how they ref the scrum. Porter's been too long scrummaging at loose head to keep acting bewildered when he's pinged every game for the same thing. I don't remember him being penalised anywhere near as much at tighthead.

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3 · 29-12-2023 1:01pm

15. Jimmy O’Brien (76)

14. Tommy O’Brien (28)

13. Liam Turner (22)

12. Robbie Henshaw (81)

11. Rob Russell (23)

10. Sam Prendergast (7)

9. Jamison Gibson-Park (131)

1. Cian Healy (268)

2. Dan Sheehan (52)

3. Thomas Clarkson (32)

4. Jason Jenkins (27)

5. James Ryan (77) CAPTAIN

6. Ryan Baird (59)

7. Will Connors (42)

8. Caelan Doris (72)

16. Lee Barron (13)

17. Jack Boyle (8)

18. Michael Ala’alatoa (55)

19. Joe McCarthy (25)

20. Jack Conan (136)

21. Luke McGrath (198)

22. Harry Byrne (58)

23. Josh van der Flier (132)

Clegg · 29-12-2023 1:05pm

That's a pretty great starting 15 when you consider all the rotation that's been made.

Delighted to have TOB back and really looking forward to seeing how Prendergast goes. Biggest game of his pro career to date.

https://twitter.com/leinsterrugby/status/1740704382512148858?t=ds6s54UoGQgZgGi4cxEL2w&s=09

pickarooney · 29-12-2023 1:16pm

Love this lineup. Good mix of continuity for the likes of Baird and Clarkson, experimentation and using the fringe players while keeping a solid, experienced core.

typhoony · 29-12-2023 1:47pm

Is frawley injured, can't understand why he hasn't been given a solid run at 10, has all the basics of the game to play to be the no1 to my mind

sydthebeat · 29-12-2023 1:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546889#Comment_121546889

The reason is plainly obvious.

The coaches think there are better options open to them, and / or they think Frawleys best position is not at 10.

Is harry Byrne more likely to start a European knock out then Frawley at this stage of both their careers??

Personally I think it's very obvious the answer to that is yes

Clegg · 29-12-2023 2:06pm

Ulster have gone very strong for this one. Leinster's bench is stronger and if the scores are close in the second half I think the better substitutes will win the game.

https://twitter.com/UlsterRugby/status/1740704410974441852?t=-fRJVTQ4g3GeXIdTcjvn9A&s=09

Hey_Ho_Lets_Go_3 · 29-12-2023 2:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546889#Comment_121546889

frawley has played in every game this season, due a rest obviously.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 2:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546285#Comment_121546285

I think Porter needs to beef up a little.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 2:23pm

No Furlong? Is he injured?

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 2:28pm

I reckon Ulster can win this. Clarkson has a tough assignment. Ouch! Credit to Leo for giving Clarkson the start. Massive faith in him. I'm very interested to see the backline play, now that it's mostly back ups involved.

29-12-2023 2:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547028#Comment_121547028

He’s 125kg now, and by every account in the strongest player in the Irish squad.

Billy_the_Kid · 29-12-2023 3:03pm

Great to see Clarkson start, a real test for him. I think he looks like a really exciting prospect. Glad Baird in at 6 too and Connors back in team. Thats a very strong Ulster team

Podge_irl · 29-12-2023 4:01pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546889#Comment_121546889

I don't think he imposes himself anywhere near enough on the game and his kicking out of hand can be of questionable efficacy at times. He was poor against Sale. But ultimately successive Leinster coaches have all come to the same conclusion on his ability or potential at 10.

Clegg · 29-12-2023 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547038#Comment_121547038

His father died a few weeks ago. I imagine he's been given some time off for bereavement.

29-12-2023 5:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547462#Comment_121547462

He was training during the week. Must not have been ready.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 6:35pm

I think our tight 5 might struggle. I'd give an edge to Ulster in the front row. To me, Kitshoff is the best lh in the world and Clarkson is really up against it. Fortunately, Jenkins is behind him. Very disappointing not seeing Milne.

Tim Robbins · 29-12-2023 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121546208#Comment_121546208

Can give you the ref angle. You have a checklist. For a while, a lot of ref's were giving it to the team who got the early legal shove, especially if there was nothing obvious and if there was no early shove, they used to reset. At the WC, Ireland got the early shove but the PK went the other way. Porter's arse looked diagonal so it went against him. That could be the tight-head bored in on our hooker so Porter naturally became diagonal or because as Porter was driving forward the other Prop just buckled a bit.

The scrum is hard to ref but if you keep telling players why they got pinged i.e. you dropped your bind, your head was under his chest so and work with the FRs, then you are usually ok in the amateur game. In the pro game where there is much more at stake and the players are way better at bending rules - it's just really hard to get a "clear and obvious" so ref's used to reset probably more. But recently, they have cut down on that and just gone for a picture of straight hips being more important.

Note: another ref can come in here and contradict me - that's ok. The pro ref's at higher level get more technical guidance regarding interpretation I am only second guessing they were told to ping this way and cut down on resets.

Tim Robbins · 29-12-2023 7:40pm

It's disappointing Frawley wasn't picked. It can't do confidence any good at this stage and really think for his own sake and Ireland's sake, he should leave and go to another club where he can get game time at 10 which is his best position and with a run at it could become a world class 10.

He has only had 11 starts at 10 which just isn't enough. Sexton got his first start in 2006, age 21 and then really only broke through when Felipe got injured 3 years later. Who could have predicted what happened once Sexton got a proper run at 10.

At this point, Frawley is never going to get a run at 10 so what's the point hanging around?

Podge_irl · 29-12-2023 7:49pm

He only has 11 starts at 10 because none of the Leinster coaches think he is a 10 and he will only ever be used there in an emergency.

The majority of those starts came before he was permanently moved to 12 because 10 clearly wasn't his position. He's just a better Noel Reid.

Also Sexton broke through in the 07/08 season in the Magners League, often shifting Contepomi out to 12 ironically.

If Frawley is desperate to play 10 then he needs to leave Leinster as the coaches simply don't rate him there. I agree with them for what it's worth. I think it is far more exciting that Prendergast has been picked - a player who actually has a future at 10 for Leinster.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 8:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548080#Comment_121548080

Maybe he's happy?

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 8:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548109#Comment_121548109

I can see Frawley going up the N1. That's if he leaves.

Lost Ormond · 29-12-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121547028#Comment_121547028

Why? For what reason?

Clegg · 29-12-2023 8:29pm

Frawley's only consistent run at 10 came early in his career. He played well enough there, but showed dips in concentration or lapses in technique where he passed behind the receiver or to their outside shoulder. Resulted in a fair amount of knock ons.

I think that's a flaw in his game at flyhalf which could have been ironed out, but such was Leinster's strength in depth at 10 that he was usurped/couldn't break through. That's fine and I think he's a better 12 anyway. He has a split second more to read what's ahead of him and he generally makes fewer mistakes.

I really like Frawley's game and it's clear the coaches do as well. He's one of our more frequently selected players when fit. But if he wants to nail down a starting position as a 10, I don't think it will be at Leinster. He has the talent to do that, I think. He just can't be afforded the time to develop.

salmocab · 29-12-2023 8:34pm

With a 6-2 split being used a bit more regularly (or so it seems to me) at Leinster, Frawley could well be the big winner in the latter half of the season.

molloyjh · 29-12-2023 8:40pm

Frawley played almost exclusively at 10 in his first 3 seasons. He’s had an additional 4 years since then to make his case in training as well. Despite that numerous coaches have consistently viewed him as a 12 and not as a 10. Leo, Lancaster, Goodman and, by far the most important of the lot, Contempomi, a guy who without doubt knows a thing or two about playing 10. Even Farrell, who has looked at Frawley recently as a 10, only did so when he’d looked at every other available option and was forced to due to injury.

Frawley is a good rugby player and could do a job at 10 if we were stuck. But it’s not his best position and there are other better options there at Leinster. We saw vs Sale the issues he has directing a game, but also his kicking from hand over the last month has been pretty poor.

There are genuine reasons why so many coaches who have seen so much more of him than anyone else have so consistently selected others ahead of him. Coaches can make mistakes. But multiple coaches making the same mistake over multiple seasons? The likelihood of that reduces the more of each we get.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 9:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548191#Comment_121548191

He's listed as 115 kgs. He could carry a couple more. Added strenght and power.

Dubinusa · 29-12-2023 9:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548261#Comment_121548261

Frawley is a very good 12. He's done well at fb and can play 10. I think his skillset gets into the national squad.

Lost Ormond · 29-12-2023 9:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121548339#Comment_121548339

He doesn't really need more strength and power though

Few more kgs and he loses a lot more in what strengths he has for what?

Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

Comments