Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings and threadbans - updated 11/5/24*

I don't get what you're saying there. What evidence have you of this 'official ideology" If its official then it must be somewhere in legislation? How is teaching non nationals irish in schools not evidence of 'assimilation' that you call it (not a word I like to use - integration is what id call it).

I'm not sure what people are expecting any future Irish government to do. We already have full control over EU freedom of movement and immigration by non-EU migrant workers and students - the govt could tighten implementation of the current rules if they wished, using entirely legal means.

That just leaves us with the refugee / asylum seeker situation, but by the sounds of it, they already have plans to enforce rules around this more robustly in 2024 and beyond, including for Ukrainians.

I disagree. I have actually addressed most of the issues you've mentioned in my previous posts including labour shortages around nursing, construction and hospitality. Perhaps I should find and link to these posts.

In some areas immigrants fill gaps, in others they create a labour glut which helps lower wages (which is great for business owners, but not for Irish workers and is an abuse of immigrants also). There is a nursing shortage but the shortage in other areas is not so stark and does not cover all roles.

To state as a fact that the benefits outweigh the pressures is tendentious. I do not believe that is correct and you've so far assumed it rather than demonstrated it.

This is a 425-page thread and the Immigration megathread is 200 pages so read through if you have time as many points have been made on both sides.

Lastly, I mentioned crime only in passing because I was talking about other people's perceptions.

It's true that i am new to this thread and I'd like to see what you said previously on labour shortages etc. Based on your comment I replied to it seemed you were very much anti emigration. In terms of me not demonstrating how benefits of emigration outweigh negatives id refer to numerous articles by David McWilliams where he describes how immigrants are more likely to be better educated, more motivated and younger than the average irish worker. He cites irish census figures and government data in his articles. If you can't access through the irish times paywall he repeats the article contents in his podcasts

Also it's quite disingenuous of you to say you only mentioned crime due to immigrants 'in passing' and then brushing it off as something someone else said. The fact you mentioned it means you wished to emphasise that link. Otherwise why mention it at all.

Labour shortages can be addressed by legal immigration.These are usually for employment with skills why immigrants can have higher education than nationals .

Do we really need to allow in false asylum seekers just to fill a void in the minimum wage sector.They will after time find it more attractive to be on welfare and the cycle continues.

The great mind reader has spoken your negative assumptions are worthless.

The suggestion seems to be that there are 'too many' workers in the country. Reduce those numbers and you end up with a smaller economy and less money to go around (but with the exact same number of inactive people and those on social welfare).

Ah again with the racism trope.. It's really tired at this stage.

Firstly, no one thinks that sending all migrants back (even if : A - it were possible, and B - anyone actually said that) will somehow magically solve all this country's problems, BUT.... it would certainly help to ease the pressure and demands on our finite resources if those who have no legitimate reason be here were sent home/back to wherever they arrived from for a start.

Step 2 then would be reviewing the groups like Ukrainians and their "entitlements" (which are most definitely a draw for them and the aforementioned others as has been evidenced many times) - something the Government HAS actually, if belatedly done.

As for this other often repeated appeal to emotionalism regarding warzones... It's again been shown many times on this thread that only a (comparatively) small area of what is the vast country of Ukraine is involved in the fighting and that there are large areas to the west where tourism and life continues more or less as normal.. Is it COMPLETELY normal? No, but that's no different to when we had the Troubles in the North with far too many reports on the news here of bombings or murders or the occasional incident outside of the normal areas. We just got on with things as best we could just as they are in western Ukraine and elsewhere in the country.

Finally, moderate thinkers (which I'm glad to hear you acknowledge rather than the meaningless screeching of "far right" that's echoing in the media, from certain politicians, and some on this thread) don't need "racists" to influence them - indeed, moderates by definition would be against racism in principle! HOWEVER, they are not blind to the effects a surge in refugees and economic migrants is having on the previously mentioned finite resources of this country and local communities, nor are they blind to the social issues that are arising as a result, and they are most certainly concerned about all this and the long term implications for their own families, communities and the country as a whole.

That's not racism, xenophobia, or any other -ism some might care to distract with. It is in fact good citizenship.. To take an active interest in the politics, economics and social affairs of one's country and to speak up/out when things are happening that you don't agree with - as is our democratic right and indeed responsibility!

SO LONG AS that engagement remains peaceful and civil it should be actively encouraged. As a nation we are often far too passive in these areas (what I call the "ah shure it'll be grand" attitude!) and it's largely the same reason WHY we find ourselves in these situations now. As an electorate we need to get more involved in the oversight of how the country is run on our behalf by engaging (constructively) with the political process and ensuring that concerns or opinions are heard.

But, your last paragraph is actually correct - the Government aren't helping the situation by allowing the crises that have arisen out of these long standing issues to continue.

Of course, you need to remember that it's also the Government who've created these in the first place. 10 years of FG politics has largely sold off whatever property we had while enriching the owners, and it's a FG minister who is cheerleading the attempts to silence debate on these issues (through her imminent "hurt feelings" legislation), and a FG taoiseach who has shown time and again that he has no political ideology or red-lines beyond popularising whatever he thinks will be good for his own image, career and personal bucket list - which includes subservience to his/our "betters" in Europe, no matter the consequences to those here at home that he and they are actually supposed to be representing!

This post makes zero sense!

Reducing pressure on stretched-to-breaking-point services and infrastructure will somehow make things worse? How do you come to that conclusion?

As for the claim of a smaller economy and less money in people's pockets, I think you are (possibly deliberately) confusing several issues there.

Firstly, no one has a problem with sustainable, robust and legal economic migration so long as it is beneficial to the economy, the migrant AND the locals. I challenge you to show any post that says differently!

This policy worked quite well in the run up to the Tiger years and even through that crazy period for a time - until again the lack of controls and oversight led to disastrous consequences (much as the current immigration situation has in fact).

What's the common denominator? Poor political decisions and the shouting down of anyone who voices concerns (remember Bertie's infamous statement about naysayers?) until it's too late!

excellent post.

Probably only banned when they counter the official narrative.

If they support the narrative, then i suspect they are perfectly ok and deemed "evidence".

It isn't the thousands of taxpayers that need to be taken out, it is the thousands of economic migrants claiming to be IPA applicants, many of whom have destroyed their documents; if having a growing population was the key determinant of progress, Zimbabwe would be a great spot, we should focus on GDP per capita, plus the reason we are running a surplus has more to do with our ability to take advantage of global tax rules than the number of minimum wage employees we have in the takeaway food industry

The lads above have already replied to you on this but even my post addresses this and the others I made above...

Legal sustainable migration that benefits the country, the natives and the migrant isn't an issue - so long as those migrants have skills we need, so long as there are jobs for them, and so long as they contribute and integrate to our society and economy.

The issue is huge numbers of unskilled/unvetted refugees, asylum seekers and economic migrants posing as one of these 2 groups (which is also why you cannot separate them in any discussion of the topic as a whole). These groups are the issue and while yes, we should try to help those we can, such help must only be what we can realistically manage and completely under our control. We have no history of colonisation or exploitation to "make up" for, no fault in the problems in their homelands, and no obligation to take in any and all who arrive at our door.

Where welfare is concerned, we do need to tackle those on welfare who WON'T engage (natives and others alike!) but that's a separate issue for another thread, however adding thousands upon thousands of refugees to that (already massively expensive) system, unemployable (without our assistance first) economic migrants, or asylum seekers making appeal after appeal until they are just allowed stay anyway certainly doesn't help matters, recession or not.

They won’t be temporary. How can they be if Roddy expects 15,000 a year now. In fact there will be more I suspect.

Absolutely, And please explain how uncapped refugees & asylum seekers rammed into every town in the country is of benefit to us all?

Because the one’s im seeing allot arent far away from pension age & the rest i doubt they’ll work for min wage & pay all the bill’s & taxes Irish people are paying.

Plus the wages they’ll earn with all due respect will be so low they won’t be able to buy a family home here!

So what will they do? Exactly what low skilled Irish people do, and be better off on Welfare.