General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

Well, no… if you’re diving down so your hands/arms are at someone’s feet at ground level you’re doing a lot more than just existing.

Foot-on-foot contact or shoulder-to-shoulder type contact can sometimes be argued to be incidental - hand to foot contact on the ground can only really come from a failed challenge.

Compared to the first half of the season they were pretty much playing two games a week compared to one.

Diazs' was a bit of a delayed reaction as well, he definitely takes a dive and could have played on. I'm kind of wondering what's the difference between the two, how much contact qualifies as a penalty?

Personally, I think Jota should get a yellow for diving but there is contact so..........

I wonder if Jota played on and scored, would the keeper get a yellow? Did the ref feel he had to give a yellow because he gave the penalty?

to be fair to them, it is tougher. you can't prepare for a game all week like you could last season, and it's natural that they can't replicate the intensity in its entirety.

it's no excuse, but there are legitimate reasons for their downturn. You need to be adaptable when you've Europe, and Howe simply hasn't been able to because all he has in his locker is a high intensity game.

I still don't understand why people in here are saying that any contact is considered to automatically be a foul?

Any definition of a foul that I read includes the words "that interferes with the active play of the game".

If there is contact that doesn't interfere with the active play of the game then it isn't a foul. If Jota needs to make himself dive, then there was no foul.

This isn't a case of both a dive and a foul because it can't be both at the same time.

The Jota penalty wasn't a penalty. He got away with it because of this mad VAR protocol that if the penalty is given, and there is any contact whatsoever, then there is enough doubt not to overturn.

But it is fascinating all the same.

Kane - smart

Saka - smart

Sterling - smart

Jota - ????

If he could stay on his feet he’d probably score.

The keeper commits himself, doesn’t get the ball, does get the player and disrupts his run. It’s a pretty straightforward call imo.

Penalties have been an excercise in pantomime for 2+ decades. The performance of a player going down under minimal contact for the ref to be allowed point to the spot has been the default for years. All anyone really has a problem with here is Jota’s stage performance. A better fall of Kane/Saka/Bruno/Suarez’ quality and this is not even a conversation.

Neville said klopp was sneaky in his transfer dealings last night, Jamie called him out and he backtracked a bit saying he admired it, but interesting choice of words.

Newcastle could have been beaten by 10 last night, if they requested a reply that may happen 2nd time around. I doubt that within their best interests.

I've looked at the video again. Jota does not take loads of steps.

His left foot is pushed and when he tries to put that foot down again he appears to be off balance and over he goes.

For me, that's a penalty as its the contact that has affected his balance.

I don't think exaggerating contact is necessarily a bad thing if you are actually impeded but I don't think Jota is impeded by the contact and just plain dives. He wasn't unbalanced at all from what I can see and throws himself down.

I get what you're saying about it not being convincing but isn't that the game? If it's not true you have to at least make it look like it's true. Otherwise it's just plainly not true and you should be punished.

That Jota incident is one of the more unusual ones I've ever seen. It seems pretty clear that he could stay on his feet and tap it in if he wanted, but he just...doesn't. Bizarre. Its probably still a foul anyway

I slightly disagree. I think he's getting stick because it seems pretty clear that he could just tap the ball into an open net, but he goes down anyway.

He went down because he dived, and to be honest it was a very blatant dive so I find I'm not much interested in anybody trying to warp physics and pretend it wasn't.

And that keeper then admitted it was a penalty.

As I posted earlier if you don't go down you don't get a penalty. Mane stayed on his feet in the below game and got nothing.

So what? Because it's a still it didn't happen?

A video is just a sequence of still shots (50 or 60 of them per second). There's a decent amount of contact in that one still that you can be sure his run was impeded. Whatever happens before and after is irrelevant.

I could watch rugby but I wouldn't see anything close to what happened with Jota. It's not hard to admit he dived.

Personally I think the Diaz penalty was nailed on and shouldn't be a debate whatsoever, but it is because straight away Gary Neville started called Diaz a diver, a few times, and has framed that incident as such. Every viewer in the UK & Ireland now had that idea implanted in their head because Neville wanted it that way. When Mike Dean has to jump into commentary to tell you that you're wrong, then you need to look at yourself. When the Newcastle manager also says himself that it was a penalty, then you really have to take a look at it. Not surprised with Neville's sly digs though - pardon the pun given what he said later on that night.

The Jota one, I think it's soft. There is contact for sure but whether it's enough or bring the attacker down, well only the attacker knows really. I'd hate to see it given against my team, and I have done too and was annoyed at that. The fact that Jota didn't just pass the ball into the empty net (with his left foot) would suggest that there was enough contact (on his left foot) to suggest that he was off balance after being caught while moving at high speed. But again, only Jota really knows. He either felt the contact and went down very easily or else he genuinely was clipped enough to throw him off. It's not like the game was level when it happened. If it was, I would more than likely fall on the side of going down easy. Jota is staking a claim for a starting spot while Salah is gone to AFCON and hasn't been part of the team for a while. He shouldn't be saying no to a goal.

I'd have preferred if Liverpool were awarded the penalty for the blatant Odegaard handball last week as that was a nailed on penalty not given. But the mental gymnastics and excuses that referees and VAR wrap themselves in now to cover themselves is so stupidly annoying.

Jota didn't pass it into an empty net because they are trained to go down if there is contact. It was muscle memory.

Where is the outrage? Isn't virtually everyone saying it's both a penalty and a dive? Liverpool battered Newcastle and deserved to win, Jota still dove with an open goal. It was bloody weird so people are discussing it.