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Donald Trump discussion Thread IX (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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    #4022
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Pardon him for what? Aren't they accepting that Trump has done something that he needs pardoning for?

    Isn't the line supposed to be that he has done nothing wrong and its all just a democrat witch hunt led by a corrupt Joe Biden and his weaponised DOJ?



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    #4023
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560242#Comment_121560242

    And also, to accept a pardon it requires that the person admit their guilt.

    If he says he's not guilty then he can't be "pardoned".



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    #4024
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,299 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560610#Comment_121560610

    Nope; they don't need to admit guilt and it will be billed as a general pardon for any and all potential crimes to that point (as you can't get a pardon for future actions) "as protection from further prosecution by the Democrats" or along those lines as an excuse. Will not stop the state level prosecutions obviously (which is why I don't think Trump would accept a deal on it).



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    #4025
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121560792#Comment_121560792

    Well, Nixon accepted a pardon from Ford for all the things that he did not do.

    I think that if such a deal was proffered (secretly) then it might be accepted by Trump, particularly if it could include the state cases.

    It would let the USSC off the hook of course.



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    #4026
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,299 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561783#Comment_121561783

    I think Trump would only accept it if it included state protection which is what makes it impossible to give (because it would need to include all 50 states to avoid potential future lawsuits) because in his mind he'll win / delay the federate lawsuits to allow him to get them cancelled as president.



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    #4027
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    An offered pardon can not and would not include the State Cases. But there isn't any deal worth talking about, if a president offers to pardon Trump he'll just take it and if he gets in he will just pardon himself.



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    #4028
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,580 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    If he gets in it won't matter. Zero chance any state will bring him to trial.

    Haley and RDS offering him a pardon means nothing as he will be running . All it is is them trying to curry favour with his supporters should he not end up as the nominee



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    #4029
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562229#Comment_121562229

    Zero chance while he's in office, but they'll just restart the cases when he is gone again.



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    #4030
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121561916#Comment_121561916

    I think a Biden pardon would only be offered if he gave up all every possibility of ever standing for any public office again, plus perhaps any of his relatives.

    The state cases could be dealt with separately.



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    #4031
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,411 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562432#Comment_121562432

    do you really think that trump would stick to any such agreement?



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    #4032
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562444#Comment_121562444

    Well, I think the threat of jailtime might be a factor.



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    #4033
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Biden is never offering a pardon, this is silly. He would definitely not offer one in return for what is essentially a political favour.



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    #4034
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,299 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562432#Comment_121562432

    Don't really see it honestly; he'd be 84 for next run as president and if he fails this time around (second loss in a row) I simply don't see the Republican party to row in behind him for a third attempt (and none of the other Trump family are worth to even consider; any normal candidate would rip them to pieces). That's already a theme now that "next generation" should take over and if Trump gets another 4 years of ranting (and swerving more extreme) + court cases completed against him I simply don't see him being in a stronger position and the party knows it. The only deal that can be struck is for this year; and the only thing Trump would care for is all the state cases (as he believes he'll win the president being the narcissist he is; what ever he thinks is true etc.) and that's not something that's likely (or possible) to agree to. I think he'll run into the wall in another failure and either way keep the grifting going to pay for the lawsuits even after the election is over to line his pockets and he'll go to his grave claiming fraud (with Jared trying to claim he was assassinated, ask for money for a state funeral/investigation and fail completely to become Trump 2.0 in his attempt to get into congress/senate).



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    #4035
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,645 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562486#Comment_121562486

    Neither do I, but Trump is unlikely to be willing to face the ignominy of a USSC ban on him standing. So if it is apparent as a possibility, then he may see that another option will be less unacceptable - like Biden also dropping his candidature.



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    #4036
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,411 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562456#Comment_121562456

    Oh i am sure he would accept an agreement. He wouldn't stick to it though and I dont think they can put such conditions on a pardon anyway.



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    #4037
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,411 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562561#Comment_121562561

    to answer my own question a pardon cannot be revoked once completed so such conditions on a pardon are not possible.

    https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/can-a-presidential-pardon-be-revoked/




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    #4038
    amandstu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,506 ✭✭✭amandstu


    Hopefully academic but does double jeopardy apply to presidential pardons ?

    Because Trump will continue offending even after he is pardoned I would imagine.



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    #4039
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,565 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121562630#Comment_121562630

    If you continue to offend it is not double jeopardy to try you again. You can not pardon future offences.

    If he is pardoned it is impossible to try him for the offences for which he was pardoned.



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    #4040
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    A lot of the recent media statements about Trump seem to centre on a pardon for him. Given how the two other GOP members who've tossed their names into the candidacy pot have posited giving Trump clemency for prior offences, is there any chance that the proposition could split other GOP factions even further apart? They have to be aware of that risk for the GOP. I assume that Trump will probably publicly label them as RINO's.



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    #4041
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    lads, no one is pardoning Trump. Definitely not Biden and there’s even less chance Hailey or de Santis get the chance.


    Trump is going to take the GOP nomination and the general is a coin flip. It’s terrifying, but it’s the reality.


    The only thing that stops it is a major health event for Trump and I don’t believe we’ll be that lucky.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4042
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121563889#Comment_121563889

    That has to be the most important fact facing the Democrat voters. Either they turn out in force at state level to prevent local state GOP party members from cooking the electorate voting books and the electorate voting systems before and after the vote days AND turn out in record numbers on the days where voting is allowed. Take full advantage of the GOP splits, and check for "fake" splits set up by the GOP candidates to fool the Democrats into thinking the GOP will do themselves to death over Trump.

    The local state GOP parties have form for electoral fraud attempts: rigging electoral areas to disenfranchise voters, fiddling around with the proofs required by electors to prove they can vote on the day, closing ballot stations and altering closure times, preventing voters from being driven to the ballot stations. If Trump wins after all he's done, The Democrats will have done as much dis-service to the US as the GOP.



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    #4043
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    The autopsy of polls taken of GOP voters in the days after the CNN debate between DeSantis and Haley in Iowa on the 10th [tenth] Jan next and the appearance by Trump at the Foxnews event on the same day in Iowa [as he declined to join in the debate with them] should be good, maybe even useful as a guide to how genuine GOP party voters [not faction members] see Trump and those other two candidates standing against him when it comes the future casting of their ballots.

    Unfortunately I don't have CNN available to me to watch DeSantis and Haley together to see how much energy they spend on each other and how they get past one obvious question from the host: are they serious about engaging with Trump to get him take a pardon while stepping aside from his third bid for office! I haven't got a clue whom Fox has pencilled for its event in Iowa but suspect Trump [and his lawyers] will have gotten guarantees for a trouble-free Q&A session from the network.



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    #4044
    breatheme
    Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭breatheme


    Is he going to skip all the debates, or just the Iowa one?



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    #4045
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,299 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121564751#Comment_121564751

    I don't think he'd dare to skip the presidential debates but he's skipping all republican debates because he's so far ahead it's a waste of his time to open him up to look like a fool (and he can get more money that way from other engagements).



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    #4046
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,184 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565024#Comment_121565024

    He won’t debate Biden if he gets the nomination. He can only lose popularity that way. He shouldn’t have done it last time either, he looked like a complete tool in every debate.


    He’ll make excuses about the liberal media, including Fox, being biased against him for asking questions.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #4047
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,299 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121565280#Comment_121565280

    I think his ego will not allow it as he'll be called a coward (and that's the nice version) for not daring to discuss policy etc. when it's no longer only sycophant media interest in the game. I agree he'll try to stay out of it but I don't think he'll be able to after the first missed debate; esp. if they let Biden do a solo show with a curator asking him policy questions etc. Keep in mind in his world view he did great in the previous debates he was part of as well; reality has nothing to do with it.



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    #4048
    beggars_bush
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭beggars_bush


    What party would Jewish voters in the US usually support?

    That conflict is going to drag on until election time



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    #4049
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121566506#Comment_121566506

    Historically , most voted Democrat.



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    #4050
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,627 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Trump declared his position on Israel by moving the US embassy there to Jerusalem, which should have been a feather in his cap for domestic votes. Take what one wants from Trump's "all over the place" foreign policy decisions. If he thinks there's a chance of a vote in it for him, he'll give it the nod.

    He was a member of the Democratic Party back circa 2012/2014 before becoming a Republican. Presumably there was a reason behind his thinking on which party to tie his future to.



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    #4051
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭political analyst


    It's obvious that ordinary Republicans could prevent Trump from getting their party's nomination this year if they wanted to. If they did that and he then ran as a third-party candidate then so what?! It would be an injustice to let Trump run again, let alone re-elect him - and injustice in a democratic country usually causes a public outcry, doesn't it?



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