Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

In many cases, military installations were frequently the target and not civilians per se. What marked Dresden out in particular is that there no military targets of note and the city was full of refugees - the Allies knew full well they were bombing a civilian city i.e. the civilians themselves were the target.

By that rational you'd be fine with the dropping a nuke on gaza? Because the US did that twice in WW2.

What the allies did to germany and japan was horrific. They firebombed cities. They couldn't manage to target anyone so they targeted entire cities. What they did was certainly a warcrime but because they won with unconditional surrenders, they were never prosecuted. They used actual nuclear weapons on cities filled with civilians. I realise that at this point, someone will reply with "but what about germany/japan". I'm not saying they were saints. I'm not saying they were blameless. they were horrific regimes who caused untold suffering. That doesn't mean it's ok to bomb a city filled with civilians. Especially when it made very little difference to the war effort.

The firebombing of german cities was so bad that civilians died in bunkers because the air was sucked out. In some bunkers bodies weren't even found because the air was super heated and they could only estimate how many people were killed based on the quantity of ash they found on the floor of the bunker. Civilians outside were found sticking out of the roads because it was so hot it caused roads to melt and their bodies sank into the road. The allies dropped delayed fuse bombs to hit first responders.

In hamburg in one night, 18,000 people were killed. There was a firestorm that covered 21 square kilometers, went 300ft into the air, had 240km winds and temperatures of 800c.

That's the standard you want for israel? Because I'm not sure you know how bad the allies were in WW2.

I don't think people were or are in favour of what the Saudis are doing in Yemen or what Assad has done in Syria, and have marched against thise perpetrated those crimss. Do people selectively decide what they want to get upset about? Yes definitely. You can even see this in this thread where people will deplore the killings on 7 October and say nought about the killings of kids in the last two months.

They have been pretty clear in their position I suppose. Innocents must decide until Israel decides it is done, and they will support them whatever happens.

Seriously? Rapes from 75 years ago matter as much as what went on in October? Sheesh. Pointless to debate with such but whatever. I do condemn IDF rapes.

Will Hamas be investigating their own policy being executed? What do you think? I doubt it. Do you allege rape is part of IDF policy? And mutilation, too?

The killings as part of the war will stop when Hamas returns the hostages and stops shooting rockets.

We hold them to a standard of a western nation. But what standard we hold them is irrelevant. Either you think they are killing too many civilians in this conflict or not? What do you think?

If you don't object to their current methods it would explain well why you want people to focus their ire on the Saudis or Syrian government instead.

Yes, IIRC it was you who said we should not focus on Hamas. Which is a really bizarre comment, it would be like saying in WWII that the Allies should not focus on the Nazis but instead focus on German collateral damage. A really weird way to discuss what is very clearly a fight to the death.

Hamas has around 25k militants - Israel has a heavily armed military of 500k (including reservists) and has an army, navy and air force.

Israel will never stop killing, not until the whole Gaza enclave has been absorbed, they have no interest in a two state solution, Hamas or no Hamas, they'll continue to steal land and expand.

And they are justified in using their full force to defend themselves and to prevent another 7/10 by any means necessary.

says standard is irrelevant then seeks to apply standard…

And some other experts claim the opposite. In the end it's Israel's duty to protect their people by whatever means they see fit as to be used as self defense.

And some other experts claim Israel can't claim self defense when they are attacked by a population who they have under occupation.

I must've missed where Israel occupied Gaza. However, that's likely to be the reality soon enough.