Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Judging it with the benefit of 80yrs of hindsight and with the familiarity of modern day weapons, communications and military analysis, and tactics makes no sense.

If you bombed Dublin city and port you'd cripple the transport network of the entire country. It's a central hub in radial network. Similarly if you have divert vast resources from the front lines into defending a 2nd front behind the front live. How does that not have an effect. Its a nonsense argument that it had no impact.

I'm not sure why you'd want to portray the allies as the bad guys in WW2.

Or what it has to do with the current conflict.

If you can prove anything I said incorrect please go ahead.

The ANC have robbed an entire generation their aspiration to grow up and live in a safe prosperous country.

The post I was replying to said that they wanted Israel to be held to the same standards as the allies in world war 2. When it came to the allies targeting civilians, they had no standards. That was the point.

And the only reason the allies aren't considered the bad guys in WW2 was because the germans and japanese were so much worse. They started wars of aggression and committed genocide.

And at the time the allies knew t was wrong. In WW1 there was a lot made of how Germany was targeting civilians in Belgium. They had called out germany over blitzkrig in Spain. They were horrified by what the german soldiers did in Poland. It was already known that targeting civilians was wrong. in 1949 they amended the geneva convention to include the indiscriminate killing of civilians which would have included the firebombing of german cities and the dropping of nuclear bombs.

So yeah, we shouldn't hold anyone to the standards of the allies during WW2. They committed what would, only 4 years later, be called war crimes. If we held israel to the same standards they would technically be allowed drop two nuclear bombs on Palestine and apparently be free of guilt.

Israel have gone way too far and this is nowhere near proportional.

They are an evil regime.

Hamas are scum, we get that and Israels Govt and the IDF are committing genocidal atrocities.

They should be sanctioned to the hilt and outcast from the international communities. Decent Israelis need to leave and live their lives in a decent country.

This period of time is a stain on our history.

Most other countries have expelled their Jews and worse. Where would you have them go? Add a few million people to Ireland?

And, to quote Golda Meir: "We have a secret weapon in our conflict with the Arabs: You see, we have no place else to go."

HTH

The post I was replying to said that they wanted Israel to be held to the same standards of the allies in WW2. So yes, I referred to the actions of the allies. Why would I refer to the actions of another combatant? The actions of the allies are the standards that they want Israel to hold so we need to look at the actions of the allies.

And yes, dropping a nuclear bomb on a city full of civilians is relevant. If that's ok for the allies to do, then it's right for israel to do. Because that's the standard that the poster set. The actions of the allies, without any exceptions were ok. So firebombing cities, dropping nuclear weapons etc is ok.

My point is that it's not OK. Israel should not drop a nuke on gaza. they shouldn't firebomb a city. They shouldn't carpet bomb a city full of civilians. What the allies did was wrong.

You may argue that at the time they had different standards. That it was not technically a war crime until after 49. I'd argue that they still knew it was morally wrong but did it anyway. However, even if we accept your argument, we now know that it was wrong. We now consider those things a crime. We now think that dropping a nuke or carpet bombing is immoral and should not be done. So we should not say that israel should be held to the same standards that we hold the allies in WW2.

And you'll notice I only mentioned the actions of the UK and US. I didn't even get into the war crimes committed by the USSR. I'm pretty certain that no-one is advocating the mass starvation of POW's or the mass rape of Palestinian women.

Israel should do better than the allies did. We should hold israel to a higher standard. And this is the point where someone usually points out what hamas did. Yes, what they did was horrific. Hamas should be fought. Hamas should be defeated. That doesn't mean that israel should pursue strategies that involve the killing of civilians.

You're now trying to apply 1940s standards to 2024. It's nonsense.

The Hama's conflict is an utterly different situation to WW2. It's ludicrous comparison of chalk and cheese.

Hamas is using human shields and hiding in the general population. Its making a target of the civilians it's hiding in. It's baiting Israel. It won't stop.

It doesn't justify what Israel is doing. But that's what keeping this going.

That was my point. The poster said that they wanted israel to be held to the same standards as the allies. I pointed out that the standards the allies met were dirt and Israel should be held to a higher standard.

yep. The only way that israel can ever have long term security is by getting peace. Bombing civilians will only generate more militants.

People who are pro Israel will point out that Palestinians walked away from previous negotiations and that's true. But israel also walked away. And throughout the Obama presidency Israel refused to even talk about peace negotiations with the Palestinians.

Bombing might get some short term security. But it's postponing the next act of violence. They also need to say that they're willing to negotiate with more moderate Palestinians and make some moves in that direction.

Hmm, where to start.

When Gazans have to leave its ethnic cleansing but Israelis should leave …

A lot of name calling etc doesn’t make it true.

Ireland was "neutral" in ww2. In reality, we had a similar position as we had in ww1. Leaving the lights on in Dublin to direct the Germans to Belfast. Working with the Germans so that the bombs up north hit loyalist but not republican areas. Sending condolences (official state condolences I may add) on the death of Hitler. We serve neither King nor Kaiser, but in reality any defeat of the British would have been met with positive response in ireland.

Of course, ceasefire and permanent peace would be what we all want. I'm 100% behind Israel on this conflict but my preferred outcome would of course be "peace in our time".

In what way are Hamas blameless victims?

At least in this I agree with you.

"...violence begets violence..." Etc..