Hamas strike on Israel - Threadbans in op - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Sigh..... (because you seem to like that word)

Read what I posted. It's well known that many victims were buried without any autopsy. Many of the alleged rape victims were buried without any forensic evidence being taken. I'm not denying that rape/sexual assault occurred. I'm saying that the Israeli government shot themselves in the foot when they allowed victims to be buried before a proper investigation had taken place.

The vast majority of the evidence that crimes took place are the statements of witnesses who claimed to have seen it take place or the aftermath. But in any criminal care witness statements are the least reliable types of evidence. For anyone to claim that no sexual assaults took place every single one of those witnesses would have to be lying. I think that's highly unlikely, close to impossible because of the volume. But the lack of forensic evidence, autopsies, photographs, DNA swabs etc means that if it were an actual criminal case, it would be thrown out of any court.

NGO's and groups that deal with violence against women have said that Israel have provided very little evidence to back up the claims of widespread assaults. This just hurts the israeli claims.

I mentioned Ukraine because there were loads of sexual assaults committed by russian troops. Every single victim is documented. Every bit of forensic evidence that can be gotten is gathered and saved. That's the way this should be done.

"NGO's and groups that deal with violence against women have said that Israel have provided very little evidence to back up the claims of widespread assaults. This just hurts the israeli claims."

Israel have provided very little evidence because Israel has very little evidence.

I don't think Elvis would have the same record of either rhetoric, threats, or actual attacks against Iran or Iranians compared to the Israelis record though. So he would probably be further down the list of suspects to be fair.

It also probably unlikely that other countries base their major policy decisions, or declarations of war, based on interviews on todayfm.

Aaron Mate of the grayzone. Another Hamasnik.

Why hasn't the UN started investigations? The Haaretz article I posted explains what happened in great detail, but deny away, send your daughters to the next Rave in Gaza, they'll be fine.

(https://archive.is/RIfq0)

Might be hard to find rape victims that are still alive. This was Hamas, after all, and they documented shooting them and their commanders urged them to 'soil them.'

Every bit of evidence was gathered as soon as they could. That's the point. If they could have gathered it earlier, they would have. They take evidence gathering seriously. The israelis did zero evidence gathering. No autopsies, no documenting of injuries, no dna swabs, nothing. That's shameful.

You could literally present the men who committed the rapes to the israeli police/military and there's not a scrap of evidence documented to say that they did it or in many cases to document that it even happened.

the israelis won't have any problem manufacturing evidence, of that you can be sure.

That's an eye witness. Read what I said. The israeli government didn't document any physical evidence. That guy could be lying. Like I said, with so many reporting it, I don't believe they could all be lying. Sexual assaults happened but there's no evidence except witnesess and that's the worst kind of evidence.

I finally got to read the article you provided (Archive wouldn't load yesterday and the other link is paywalled for me)

That's the woman who's leading the collection of evidence about sexual crimes comitted on the day of the attacks. The bold is mine. Yes, she does need to provide evidence. She's standing up and saying that crimes are committed. She does need to present evidence to support her accusations. And the people who she's responding to there are women who work for NGO's that specialize in gender based violence. They know what they're asking for. It's their job to do this. And it should be the job of the woman who's collecting evidence to actually collect evidence, search for more evidence and present it to the world.

She does say where they're getting their evidence.

But at no point does she say she's collecting forensic evidence. She's relying on eyewitness testimony and newspaper reports. I don't know if any of the video/picture evidence shows a crime being committed, because it doesn't say. I don't need to see or hear that evidence, but I do want someone who's seen it to say what they saw. Someone who can say clearly that they've seen a video of the crime being committed and that this evidence exists.

Now, once again, I'm not saying that it didn't happen. I'm saying it's shoddy work. There wasn't a single rape kit used. Not a single autopsy of any victim. Those things don't have to be done on the battlefield. They can be done before the body is cleaned and prepared for the funeral.

BTW, there's nothing in that article that stated there's a law that made anyone bury any body. There was nothing that said why a burial couldn't be delayed. There was nothing that said why they didn't conduce a port mortem.

was there a poster up the thread a day or two ago basically denying people were questioning the rapes? hopeless really.

Not so.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/briefing/hamas-sexual-violence-child-labor-nikki-haley-civil-war-ukraine.html#:~:text=A%20two%2Dmonth%20investigation%20by,by%20Hamas%20in%20early%20October.

Will be interesting if other parties front up now, post-this war. Especially countries like Egypt.

Perhaps Ireland can send some of its soldiers to keep the peace? Or is the best we can do is give out?

"BTW, there's nothing in that article that stated there's a law that made anyone bury any body. There was nothing that said why a burial couldn't be delayed. There was nothing that said why they didn't conduce a port mortem."

The organization that largely does this work for Israel, Zaka, buries victims quickly according to Jewish law. Orthodox Jews are opposed to autopsies as well, I don't think ZAKA does them. So, there are religious laws (at least, as interpreted by Orthodox Jews) that prevent it.

But they're not all orthodox. I understand that maybe some are, but I think it's something like 1/8th of Israel is orthodox. And here's the thing, i don't think they even asked. If they asked and were refused that's one thing, but if they never bothered to ask, than that's bad.

And BTW, I'm not saying it was a conspiracy to hide stuff. I'm saying it was incompetence. There should have been someone who's job it was to make sure that they gathered as much as they could. maybe there is someone, but they weren't listened to. They should have done better at the time.

And it's not wrong for people to ask for this information. Or to say that they should have gathered it.

As I mentioned in a previous post, if you rounded up the rapists and presented them to the Israeli authorities, there's no evidence to confirm that they did it or to even confirm if a particular crime occurred. If I had 10 different people give me 10 wildly different figures about how often it happened, who would I believe? And the problem there is that one person is giving roughly accurate information, the others aren't. So then it's easy for a doubter to point at someone with a ridiculous figure and say that people are lying about it happening.

What, they have evidence for rapes that occurred in the first 3 days? That’s not my understanding of things?

How is the investigation into bennys corruption going? 😋

It was a war zone.

If you believed it happened what is the purpose in carrying on down this line? To what end?