Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

at least they are looking into it. surely be to god some of the office space in dublin is fit for conversion. it'll be expensive alright but its better to see subsidies used on this instead of seeing decaying buildings scattered around the place.

Let commercial property find its natural price floor, this may incentivise existing office space to move to new space. The space they vacate may be converted to residential as in many cases it was originally residential space.

Cheapest for the taxpayer, but government buddies may not make as much

Why demolish state of the art assets, with foreign capital baring the risk of a downturn.

Drive up and down our city centres, full of solicitors, accountants, dentists, doctors, estate agents, financial advisors, banks etc

All could be moved to an office block and property freed up for residential conversion

Thats also an interesting one yeah. Plenty of middle class people only start working full time in Ireland after doing an undergrad + masters + traveling, so at 24/25 (or later). Versus lots of working class people who start at 17/18 when leaving school. Its not remotely fair to have the same retirement age for both given the almost decade difference. It should really be based on total number of years you've worked/paid contributions for, not an arbitrary calendar age.

Theres also the male/female lifespan issue - at our retirement age of 66 as it is currently a 66 year old woman can expect to live about 3 years longer than a 66 year old man. Thats a significant different in pension costs to the state. In a fair world that would also be addressed, and is also presumably open to a legal challenge.

All the evidence is our current government plans to ignore the issues (and just raise PRSI), and SF will be the same, though. They'll desperately avoid any difficult/unpopular political decisions. Which will most negatively effect young people trying to save to buy property, as they'll be hit by the extra taxes while already struggling hugely to save.

Air B&B is good example of "Just because it makes money doesn't mean it should be done". A lot of the ills of the modern West have their roots in the ideology of the "bottom line". It it makes money, it creates growth, and if it adds to GDP, then it's good.

Plumbing just for one means you need to dig up floors which would be more complex by working around a shell (which in a lot of cases wouldn’t meet building standards for residential property. Then the shell wouldn’t have sufficient ventilation for apartments so would need to be altered. Much quicker and cheaper to demolish and build new.

A rated office blocks are in demand and more so in the future due to environment policies….just look at London and what is happening there. The vacant offices are old office blocks that don’t have green credentials….

we are not talking about some house in the a town that was being used by a solicitor/estate agent. We are talking about office blocks/industrial units being converted to residential housing

Did I say anywhere I am against the proposal? Just saying it’s cheaper to build new than convert to residential.

You talk about Limerick and unless I’m mistaken a lot of the properties/offices on o’connel’s Street used to be residential 100 years ago so could easily be converted as I said previously I’m not talking about converted houses…..I’m talking about purpose built office blocks and industrial sites.

As for Green credentials companies don’t want an old office because it will impact their goal of net zero policies. This is why A rated office space is heavily in demand and attracts a 30% premium over older offices that would cost a fortune to retrofit and make green. I’m not talking about some sole trader operating out of a some converted house…These are public listed companies that publish an environmental data along with their financials. For a listed company this can be as important as their profit because unless they meet these standards pension funds/investors won’t hold their shares.

Not sure if the French system extends to pensions but the way their benefits in general are linked to a track record of PAYE sounds good to me.

Well a lot of companies now sign their employees up for some sort of pension scheme. I have two of them, and the one from my current employer is very generous indeed. However, I think we need to be under no illusion that the none of us now in our 30s will be retiring in our 60s. The idea of retirement at 60, followed by three decades or so of drawing a pension is totally unsustainable...

40+ years ago the average person that reached pension age at 65 lived mabe 6-10 years, now they live nearly 20 and within 20-30 years people will be living into there 90's.

Pay the OAP 20-30 years is not sustainable. The refusal to change the system will not effect me in my 60's now otvwill be your generation.

I know some trades that even after getting the OAP still work. I know a man in his mid 70's that drives a track machine 3 days a week a truck driver doing similar. A lad that was painting into his 70' before COVID. Know a former plaster that dose tiling a few days a week etc etc

We are continuously told here that we don't have the labour to build sufficient stock. In such an environment why would you demolish usable stock.

O connell street is the same as Georgian D2, in addition to the business I outlined there are 3 private educational facilities, taking 3 large buildings, the former home of Limerick city council. Many could be housed in the tax office that is scheduled for demolition. The tax office will be moved to Opera square which has been 30 years in planning and allowed the Georgian buildings in Arthur's quay/Patrick's street fall into Dereliction over that time

Great that plc's want net zero buildings and that so many were built. Let them off. Most office space is occupied by non plc companies. The greenest policy one could have is to let what you already have last as long as possible. The green policies we have are policed by government and finance, they don't make as much money from this simple green initiative, hence you don't hear it much

seems like this is something politicians should try to sort out asap.

do you think they should give them a reason to stay?

Its worse than that. Its average PRSI payments over your working life. So if you got your first job at 16 you will actually be worse off when it comes to pension amount than if you got it at 25.