Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Thats also an interesting one yeah. Plenty of middle class people only start working full time in Ireland after doing an undergrad + masters + traveling, so at 24/25 (or later). Versus lots of working class people who start at 17/18 when leaving school. Its not remotely fair to have the same retirement age for both given the almost decade difference. It should really be based on total number of years you've worked/paid contributions for, not an arbitrary calendar age.

Theres also the male/female lifespan issue - at our retirement age of 66 as it is currently a 66 year old woman can expect to live about 3 years longer than a 66 year old man. Thats a significant different in pension costs to the state. In a fair world that would also be addressed, and is also presumably open to a legal challenge.

All the evidence is our current government plans to ignore the issues (and just raise PRSI), and SF will be the same, though. They'll desperately avoid any difficult/unpopular political decisions. Which will most negatively effect young people trying to save to buy property, as they'll be hit by the extra taxes while already struggling hugely to save.

Air B&B is good example of "Just because it makes money doesn't mean it should be done". A lot of the ills of the modern West have their roots in the ideology of the "bottom line". It it makes money, it creates growth, and if it adds to GDP, then it's good.

Plumbing just for one means you need to dig up floors which would be more complex by working around a shell (which in a lot of cases wouldn’t meet building standards for residential property. Then the shell wouldn’t have sufficient ventilation for apartments so would need to be altered. Much quicker and cheaper to demolish and build new.

A rated office blocks are in demand and more so in the future due to environment policies….just look at London and what is happening there. The vacant offices are old office blocks that don’t have green credentials….

we are not talking about some house in the a town that was being used by a solicitor/estate agent. We are talking about office blocks/industrial units being converted to residential housing

Did I say anywhere I am against the proposal? Just saying it’s cheaper to build new than convert to residential.

You talk about Limerick and unless I’m mistaken a lot of the properties/offices on o’connel’s Street used to be residential 100 years ago so could easily be converted as I said previously I’m not talking about converted houses…..I’m talking about purpose built office blocks and industrial sites.

As for Green credentials companies don’t want an old office because it will impact their goal of net zero policies. This is why A rated office space is heavily in demand and attracts a 30% premium over older offices that would cost a fortune to retrofit and make green. I’m not talking about some sole trader operating out of a some converted house…These are public listed companies that publish an environmental data along with their financials. For a listed company this can be as important as their profit because unless they meet these standards pension funds/investors won’t hold their shares.

Not sure if the French system extends to pensions but the way their benefits in general are linked to a track record of PAYE sounds good to me.

Well a lot of companies now sign their employees up for some sort of pension scheme. I have two of them, and the one from my current employer is very generous indeed. However, I think we need to be under no illusion that the none of us now in our 30s will be retiring in our 60s. The idea of retirement at 60, followed by three decades or so of drawing a pension is totally unsustainable...

40+ years ago the average person that reached pension age at 65 lived mabe 6-10 years, now they live nearly 20 and within 20-30 years people will be living into there 90's.

Pay the OAP 20-30 years is not sustainable. The refusal to change the system will not effect me in my 60's now otvwill be your generation.

I know some trades that even after getting the OAP still work. I know a man in his mid 70's that drives a track machine 3 days a week a truck driver doing similar. A lad that was painting into his 70' before COVID. Know a former plaster that dose tiling a few days a week etc etc

We are continuously told here that we don't have the labour to build sufficient stock. In such an environment why would you demolish usable stock.

O connell street is the same as Georgian D2, in addition to the business I outlined there are 3 private educational facilities, taking 3 large buildings, the former home of Limerick city council. Many could be housed in the tax office that is scheduled for demolition. The tax office will be moved to Opera square which has been 30 years in planning and allowed the Georgian buildings in Arthur's quay/Patrick's street fall into Dereliction over that time

Great that plc's want net zero buildings and that so many were built. Let them off. Most office space is occupied by non plc companies. The greenest policy one could have is to let what you already have last as long as possible. The green policies we have are policed by government and finance, they don't make as much money from this simple green initiative, hence you don't hear it much

Do you think politicians should bar them from leaving?

Young people are prone to wondering, and wandering, particularly when they have nothing to tie them down.

So to summarise your proposal because it’s as clear and coherent as a Labour Party manifesto.

1). Force businesses out of offices which in a lot of cases they own the property so it can be converted to residential

2) move them and make them pay rent in the equivalent of a old soviet office block

3) move social housing tenants into residential housing on Limerick’s prime street.

Maybe we could compulsory purchase BT on graftons street and convert to residential…makes perfect sense to use one of the most expensive streets in Europe for social housing.

I get that logic but in the example given it’s talking about moving businesses from premises on the Main Street in Limerick to a vacant soviet building. It’s like saying forget about any long term city development plan and convert Arnotts on O’connels street to residential for social housing and let tax payer pick up the bill.

The modern state pension can be traced back to Otto Von Bismark. When first instituted, the age at which one could apply was 70, and this was at a time when few people lived to see such an age. Thus, only a tiny fraction of Prussians ever lived to see a pension. Today, the average person can reasonably expect to live into their 80s, even if they are not in good health. Ergo, a pension age in the 60s is anachronistic.

The above is bad enough, but it's compounded by falling birth rates in Western countries and inflation. Simply saving for retirement is not enough. Pension funds need to constantly invest their funds in order to have enough wealth to pay out a reasonably pension in the future. This is why we have investment funds hoovering up farm land, housing and other such resources. Thus, in addition to having to deal with inflation in the here and now, younger people need to compete with these funds to secure resources.

We can go on and on about this, but it can be summarised by calling the pension system an upside down triangle. Funding the massive welfare and pension systems with an aging population is bleeding the West white, and the measures that the state takes to address this are ruinous. Simply put, we do not live on an infinite planet, and this reality is really starting to bite.

They already have a reason to stay. But young people see an opportunity to travel/experience new countries and lifestyles, and they take it.

It is a stretch to claim they are moving due to housing, it may be a consideration, but it is by no means the only one.

Point 3 comes from the fact that the majority of Limerick’s residents would not buy these converted properties because they would cost twice what a new house in the suburbs would cost…most expensive land in Limerick, working with listed buildings in a city centre. By default it would be a housing body or government that would only have the finances to buy just like a lot of new apartment blocks up and down the country. That is unless you expect the builders to carry out the work and sell at a loss.