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Ireland’s corporate tax boon will soon ‘dry up’, warns former OECD chief

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    #2
    snl rory
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭snl rory


    Ireland’s record haul of corporate tax receipts will “dry up” over the coming years, the architect of the landmark OECD tax reforms has warned.

    Pascal Saint-Amans, the former director of the OECD’s Centre for Tax Policy who led the negotiations on global tax reform for more than a decade, said countries like Ireland that had pursued low tax strategies to attract multinationals will struggle to win the same level of new foreign investment once the rules take full-effect.

    “It’s going to be much more difficult [for countries like Ireland to compete on tax],” Saint-Amans told the Business Post.



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    #3
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,051 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    How many of these types of articles have been fired out in last 30 years?

    Guess what, the rest of Europe and the World are not happy Ireland has such a huge installation of companies. So they will release these articles in the hope of causing concern with these companies.

    When we had a lot of manufacturing in Ireland and that was moved for lower pay regions we had all of these articles as well. Except we made the transition to more complex jobs etc.



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    #4
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    This does not mean an exodus or job losses (except where tax companies have an Irish arm specifically to aid companies routing tax through here).

    R&D tax credits are what encourage job growth here moreso than the headline CT rate. We may lose a lot of CT on profits made worldwide but declared here, however the CT from actual Irish MNC activity remains strong. (Pharma, tech with actual Irish operations, employing 1000s)

    We compete on a number of issues, not just tax. Sure Luxembourg and Malta all compete on tax, but don't have half the FDI as us, because we actually have the staff and expertise. The jobs are safe, the bumper CT is not.



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    #5
    gossamerfabric
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121582380#Comment_121582380

    So, why didn't that save Ireland from the Troika in 2008? The exact same tax and regulatory arbitrage policies were being followed back then.



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    #6
    timmyntc
    Registered Users Posts: 7,037 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121582388#Comment_121582388

    2008 had nothing to do with FDI competitiveness - it was a GLOBAL financial crisis, keyword being global. Companies weren't going elsewhere for better tax or infrastructure, they just weren't investing full stop because they were in crisis.

    2008 has nothing in common with the topic of this thread or CT reform.



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    #7
    gossamerfabric
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    ...and Ireland as an economy didn't have the resilience to withstand. All that debt Ireland is carrying which supposedly never gets paid back has to be serviced and if corporate tax income stagnates or reduces then it can't repay comfortably and interest rates on bonds rise. Income tax isn't paying the costs of running Ireland Inc., Corporation tax is.



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    #8
    RobbieV
    Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    He who laughs last?

    "PWC warned that Ireland could lose foreign investment to Britain, which has a much more straightforward tax system for multinationals, while the American Chamber said many US companies are now re-examining their global operations as a result of the OECD reforms"



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    #9
    L.Ball
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭L.Ball


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058330063/ireland-s-corporate-tax-boon-will-soon-dry-up-warns-former-oecd-chief

    Yeah but the economy is the best in europe so we'll be able to take the hit.



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    #10
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    The point about harmonised tax arrangements is that there is no particular incentive for a company to leave to go somewhere else. So companies will base their decisions on non tax issues, Ireland now has a critical mass of certain industries and this will ensure that things keep going to a substantial extent. The very rapid growth of the past will not return, but if you have full employment and living standards comparable to other countries then fast growth is hardly likely or even desirable.



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    #11
    gossamerfabric
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    I would have thought the incentive to up sticks looms whenever the lease on the Office in Dublin is up for renewal every few years or break clause is actionable along with a list of vacancies which can't be filled because of staff turnover due to the high cost of living in Dublin.

    In my company an entire department is near retirement age. They will be replaced by workers in another lower cost office overseas and the department will wind down.



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    #12
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121582483#Comment_121582483

    I would have thought the incentive to up sticks looms whenever the lease on the Office in Dublin is up for renewal every few years or break clause is actionable along with a list of vacancies which can't be filled because of staff turnover due to the high cost of living in Dublin.

    And yet no one is leaving...

    Ireland hasn't even had the lowest Corporation Tax rate in Europe for decades.



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    #13
    gossamerfabric
    Registered Users Posts: 377 ✭✭gossamerfabric


    all is going tickety boo until it isn't



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    #14
    Gusser09
    Registered Users Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Hmmmm

    The dogs on the street and their owners can see 2008 coming all over again. Its on the horizon. I think things will be very different this time though. Homes will be reposessed. Unlike 2008 to 2015 there is now a queue of people who will buy these homes and get the loans to do so.

    Interesting times ahead but we are due a huge bang.



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    #15
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,051 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121582426#Comment_121582426

    The UK is not part of the European Union anymore and that means more red tape for American companies. Especially when they want to use as a base for Europe. You try telling every person coming for day/week trip to the HQ that they need a visa and see how far it goes.

    Even people based in the HQ flying to a European office would need a visa as they are not a European anymore



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    #16
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,051 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584006#Comment_121584006

    Some people are foaming at the mouth in anticipation of a downturn for Ireland. Normally you would expect this is from other countries in Europe but mostly I see it from people in Ireland.

    Strange to think you seem excited at the prospect of of people been homeless.



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    #17
    Gusser09
    Registered Users Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584054#Comment_121584054

    No. Not at all. Its very different this time. Only the wealthy can afford home ownerehip in ireland at the moment. Any downturn this time will only impact the upper class.

    People on 50 -70k might actually benefit from the arse falling out of the market.

    I havent benefited form the "recovery" after 2008. Neither have a lot of my friends.



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    #18
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,758 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584076#Comment_121584076

    Any downturn this time will only impact the upper class.

    To all intents and purposes this is never true.



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    #19
    Gusser09
    Registered Users Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584135#Comment_121584135

    Not this time.



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    #20
    RobbieV
    Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584045#Comment_121584045

    ? Not according to pwc. Easier to do business. That's why London is still the capital of finance



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    #21
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584076#Comment_121584076

    Over 70% of adults in Ireland own their own home. Mortgaged or outright.

    Things are tough for renters, sure. But they are the minority.

    Thats not a point to belittle anyone, just a point of context.



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    #22
    Gusser09
    Registered Users Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584260#Comment_121584260

    The 70% is shrinking year on year. Rapdily.



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    #23
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,051 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584228#Comment_121584228

    So how many companies have moved to UK since brexit?



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    #24
    Clo-Clo
    Registered Users Posts: 5,051 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584076#Comment_121584076

    Thays nonsense, the home ownership rate is marginally up in Ireland and The majority of houses are been bought by people to live in. So the “only the wealthy” is boll**ks

    If you haven’t benefitted well you should invest some money in a financial advisor



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    #25
    RobbieV
    Registered Users Posts: 362 ✭✭RobbieV


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584285#Comment_121584285

    What does that have to do with your comment? Or mine



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    #26
    Gusser09
    Registered Users Posts: 7,269 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584291#Comment_121584291

    Record numbers homeless mate.



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    #27
    BlueSkyDreams
    Registered Users Posts: 3,444 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584269#Comment_121584269

    its actually not. it was the highest in 2022 since 2010.

    It was higher in the 90s, around 80%. But the low of 60% is being reversed



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    #28
    Emblematic
    Registered Users Posts: 893 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584054#Comment_121584054

    @Clo-Clo wrote: "Strange to think you seem excited at the prospect of of people been homeless."

    I think however unbalanced economic growth can lead to homelessness.



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    #29
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584269#Comment_121584269

    It went up from 68.7% in 2019 to 70.4% in 2022.



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    #30
    orangerhyme
    Registered Users Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭orangerhyme


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121584076#Comment_121584076

    Plenty of houses under 400,000 in Dublin.

    It's difficult for a single person but not impossible for a couple.



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    #31
    Deub
    Registered Users Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭Deub


    I am worried for Ireland. The governments in the last decade seem to throw money at every problem. Just over half of people renting get rent supplement. How is it a healthy market?

    The biggest issue I see coming is, the decrease of tax on profit made in other countries AND the housing crisis. The housing situation in Ireland doesn’t make it attractive for companies to come here.



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