General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

I agree, but if he came back to a PL team, and he ended up being named in an England team, no one connected with the team, or anyone in the media will care.

He absolutely did **** on his public reputation alright. A lot of media uproar and fan talk from it. I didn't hear any players talking ill of him though.

And those behind the scenes charity work that he did years previous. He still did it. It wasn't PR stuff. There has been stuff over the years that showed his reasoning behind wanting get behind certain campaigns such as foodbanks, the NHS (because of how they cared for his dad when he was sick etc).

At least he did it, not many others did. He did a lot that didn't get any media attention or recorded by official club accounts. It's easy say now that it was all PR stuff but you weren't saying that last May or when it happened.

And I'm no fan of Henderson after the way he left Liverpool but I'm also not writing off the work he did as I believe that he was genuine when doing it. Just because he lied and went there for the money doesn't make everything else untrue in my eyes. The money blinded his beliefs. And it has happened to others and it will happen to others in the future again.

He may be over the hill as a player but he can still be respected by his peers. And will have been a key part of the majority of the England squads integration into the set up.

Ask Bellingham about his first few days, weeks and breaks with the international team and I can guarantee you who the first player name he will mention. And Bellingham won't be the only player in the same camp.

I mentioned it earlier in this thread on a different topic about how James Milner basically babysat a player in the Liverpool academy/first team as he was getting a bit lazy in his application in terms of training, fitness, recovery etc. The young lad listened and is now a PL regular. Milner was on the way down at the time, around 35. But he still commanded respect because of his application in training etc.

Imagine the likes of Foden, Grealish and others being let loose during a tournament with no one to keep an eye on them on or keep them grounded. Walker is a 'senior player' but look at how he acts off of the pitch. You can add in Trippier there too. Kane doesn't inspire or act like a true leader. Who are the senior lads then? Pickford? Loves himself and all about image with him. Ramsdale is similar. Maddison is a bit jack the lad like Grealish gong by older stories. Rice sound you can trust him to be a honest pro but he is 1 person, and could be a bit pally with some considering his age. Rashford, no no Stones, maybe sound I can't tell tbh.. Shaw? It's slim pickings at this stage.

That dressing room needs the 'dad' figure like Henderson. Irrespective of him chasing the coin or not. He still had the leader role over the duration of that whole squads England career. That doesn't get lost. He earned their respect over years and years of being their leader inside that England camp. Players won't treat him differently because he went to Saudi, if he is a squad player. They will only treat him different if he is starting, which he won't be.

You'd know the league was off when there's a discussion about Jordan bleeping Henderson

But why would he be in the team, those on here who say he should be say it's because he is respected,by who? He shat the bed on that front,by current ability,I don't see anyone saying that,so why should he be in the squad ?

Arteta

"Merit-wise, performance-wise, there is no question who deserved to win the game."

The guy is either an eegit, or thinks everyone else is. Stupid statement.

I'm a big fan of Rice, probably the best defensive midfielder in the league, but he's a bit of an issue to Arsenal offensively.

When you look at Arsenal last season, they got so many goals and created so many chances from direct quick passes from the likes of Xhaka in particular, who from deep positions would completely bypass the midfield and get quick ball to the front 3 in the blink of eye, and they were in on goal.

Rice doesn't have that pass in his locker, but he gives them more defensive structure and control of the ball. But it's definitely having a negative effect on how Arsenal are playing in the offensive department this season.

Absolutely. Both Xhaka and Partay could do that, play quick direct passes vertically to the forward line. Rice is a good player, but he carries the ball forward, and in those few seconds it takes the defences are getting set.

The likes of nketia and Nelson have really no place in a squad chasing a championship though.

I think the manager/ coach is the man who ought to have the final say in transfer matters. I am sure Pep and Klopp, for example, have the power to say yea or nay to recommendations from their scouting networks and both have demonstrated excellent judgement in that regard having made very few "dud" buys over the years. I just don't think Ten Hag possesses the same clear headed level of judgement and this will cause his downfall rather than his coaching influence.

What has Trippier done off the pitch that would have him alongside Walker? The only issue I was aware of was the gambling ban.

Kane who swore on his daughter's life in order to be awarded a goal that he didn't score, so he could take it off of his team mate and finish runner up in a PL golden boot race. Kane who could have put England through to a World cup final by squaring the ball to a team mate to tap in from 3 yards out, but went for goal from a tight angle instead so he could the win golden boot. They didn't win. Kane who doesn't do the introductions for the new players in the England squad and passes that job off to Henderson. Kane who never won anything while captain at Spurs. Kept things going but they finished 3rd in a 2 horse race and completely lost it at Chelsea when their whole team got booked and they acted liked kids trying to injure Chelsea instead of trying to win the game.

I've genuinely never seen or heard of any good examples of strong leadership from Kane. He may be a great player, with lots of experience but that doesn't mean he is automatically a great leader.

The pleading for Henderson is just making the case for him to travel as a team mascot/coach rather than player.

I'm not sure any of those points are particularly convincing unless you have already entered the discussion intent on hammering Harry!

Who's squad place, as a more defensive minded central midfielder, would he be taking? The most recent squads have had Rice, Philips, Henderson and if you count him as a defensive minded CM, Gallagher in it. And if Henderson does get a move back to a PL side for half a season, then his place will nearly be confirmed.

I'm not doubting that his current playing ability mean that he shouldn't be starting in the team but the squad isn't exactly brimming with quality. Kalvin Philips can't get near the Man City pitch this season, even when Rodri, Stones & others were injured, but still makes the squad handy every time. Does Philips count as a money-grabber considering how his career has panned out the last few years?

Who is more deserving of the place, and is ready to be integrated into the national team set up, and who is the vice captain ready to step up? Until those questions get answered, then he will continue to make the international squad IMO.

And it's not just England that this applies to. For example Argentina & Brazil have been picking players regularly from lower ranked leagues because of their stature within the international set up. Messi in MLS & Neymar in Saudi just 2 examples. We did it ourselves for years with Wes Hoolohan etc. Ronaldo is captain of Portugal, and still revered as a hero, while playing in Saudi longer than any other 'big' player. Mitrovic is starting for Serbia, Ruben Neves is starting for Portugal, Carrasco is continuing with Belgium. Laporte has a troubled relationship with Spain but has still been playing with the national team since his move to Saudi. Majority of the African players are still playing with their countries now in AFCON.

Due to the nature of the job, I think managers will tend to want players who can do the job now / more focused on immediate impact. Which is a fair request as that is what they are there for.

There would be very few managers at the very top now out there squad building for 3/4/5 years down the line, as they need to make sure they are in the job firstly.

This is where a Director of football and a transfer committee have to be involved - they need to be looking at the long-term health of a squad. They are in charge of the overall player profiling so when a manager is eventually moved on, and a new manager is brought in he has a squad that suits his needs but also he suits that squad.

The days of just handing the keys over to a new manager every few years are long long gone. Long-term consistency across the board is what will bring success, and everyone pulling in the same direction with the same end goal. You can't achieve that with just one guy anymore.

Even clubs like Real Madrid who traditionally would have been a "buy the current best player to fix our issues every summer" club. They have made some very impressive long-term squad-building moves over the last few years. You can see there is someone now also working on the bigger picture there.

They all do it bar Utd...

It is absolutely an issue that Philips gets picked, just as it was when Maguire was getting picked despite not playing. Picking non-performing players changes the group dynamic in dangerous ways and it is a huge black mark against Southgate that he does it.

But lets not move the goalposts. My point was very simple, you said Henderson is worth his spot because he provides leadership and I pointed out reasons why that may actually no longer be the case.

Listing off a bunch of alternative names or options won't change the point made at all. I could list some names and you would just try to pick holes in them, so why bother.

Henderson disappointed me most not because he went to Saudi and chased the money but the fact he didn't have the maturity to realize, I'm 33, my time is coming to an end, I can stay at Liverpool (on a great contract btw thanks to Klopp) play a part of something bigger and be a club legend. I saw him taking on that Milner role, say what you want about him but he'd of been a great impact player off the bench.

@Fitz* not sure if you saw my earlier post, but I'm still curious about this with Trippier if you could provide more info! Maybe it is just the gambling ban but I'm presuming its more than that for you to be comparing him to Walker!

Tell us more...

Wouldn’t think James will make it, he can barely play these days.

He was in the last squad.

The fact he could be 3rd choice RB/LB/DM is invaluable in a tournment format like Euro's/World Cup.

......

Calvert Lewin’s red card has been rescinded. Just shows you how many different opinions there can be from a ref, 2 VAR officials and those looking at the appeal - all for the same incident.

The poor man,what age would he be?