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Russia - threadbanned users in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭scottser


    They will seize the Russian assets alright, but it will go straight back to US arms manufacturers. It won't go to Ukraine to reconstruct their towns and villages, pay their military or civil service, keep supply chains open and a host of other needs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    That’s not what the interviewee in podcast outlines nor the precedent set in Gulf war 1

    Claiming something without evidence doesn’t make it correct



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭scottser


    We are all spitballing here at the end of the day, as is the guy in your podcast. None of us are in any position to know what will happen for sure and I don't particularly give a monkeys who agrees with me or not. As regards the 300bn, my guess is that Biden will get a deal done to keep on funding Ukraine but it won't be enough, it will only be enough to maintain the status quo and it will benefit the US principally.



  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    If you listened to podcast you would realise that this 300bn has little to do with Biden or the separate issue of 60bn for 2024 in Ukraine funding that’s going thru horseytrading in US Congress

    We are talking about amounts of money that can keep Ukraine funded for another decade

    Once again I ask, Will Putin be around then and which gutter will Russian economy inhabit



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,742 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    I don't think America has created many problem for themselves, and even if they have, whatever problems there maybe are as nothing to the problems Russia has created for itself. When your army is decimated the only way is up, we saw this too after the withdrawal from Afghanistan. The Russian military under Putin's watch has seen vast amounts of money spent to improve the Russian military, but as the Ukraine war has shown it's no match for Nato/ West. Their arm sales have taken a huge hit and they are relying on tinpot countries to keep the war going.

    Russia can cause some problems for the USA through proxies, but Russia thanks to Putin's idiocy has given what many neo conservatives in America have always wanted, a greatly weakened Russia on the international stage.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,439 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Russians make a beautiful little doll, it's called a Matryoshka doll, and what makes it different from other dolls is that inside the first one, there's another smaller one, and another, and another etc. and that describes Russia. Churchill's description or Russia is also pretty good. He called Russia a riddle, wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma. In my opinion, the degrading of Russia as a Country or State is gathering force. Regardless of the war being in a stalemate situation presently, (and that's only if you go by territory lost or gained) Putin cannot achieve his original goals. His personal bank (Russian Wealth) is diminishing rapidly, Russian infrastructure is failing (Heating in apartment blocks failing due to lack of maintenance, as the engineers are all in Ukraine, and the heating issue is only one of thousands of similar breakdowns across the Country) Again, memories of communist times, crowds queuing for food. If this was happening in any normal Country, there would have been revolution a long time ago, long before it even got to this stage or anything like it. But this is Russia, and to my mind, it's like a train on its tracks, it can travel only in the direction of the tracks (and these are communist tracks) it can of course change direction, but that means changing tracks. And that's the problem, Russians basically fear changing tracks.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Looks like Orban may be willing to lift his Veto power over funds to Ukraine on the premise that it's reviewed on a yearly basis rather than currently open ended with no end date attached to funds ,

    Orban change of tune may be due to a odd situation where he could be in line to take EU council president as caretaker for 6 months...

    Orban taking the resigns how many saw that coming




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    On 1, I don't get why it is "ropey", given what Russia has done, once the needed legal mechanisms are carefully put in place to do it - effectively as another Western sanction on Russia. edit: that it will mostly go to US defence contractors is, I would say, a conspiracy theory. The plan was that it be used to rebuild Ukraine post war, given its very unlikely we'll ever see Russia pay a cent of reparations for wrecking the country.

    Russia are at least as hostile now to Western countries as the Soviet Union was in most dangerous days of the Cold War in the 1960s and 1980s.

    That hostility should be fully reciprocated, tit for tat, cutting off relations as much as possible and burning bridges down by the US and EU.

    Not taking these assets as using them as see fit to damage Russia is continuing a foolish pretense that things can be normal or will go back to business as usual soon. They won't and are more likely to get worse and move closer to a war involving EU countries in coming years, especially if things go as poorly for Ukraine as you seem to think they will (don't share that view, and am more hopeful).

    Afaik Putin has enacted laws to allow Russia to expropriate assets of Western companies that try to exit Russia - the ones that tried to ride it out are trapped now (can't leave without taking the hit and writing off everything).

    Think some have been taken in hand and effectively stripped anyway, because what they were doing was considered essential, and Putin wanted him/his oligarchs to control it rather than having them likely on a go slow or a wind down under control or management of a Western company (maybe headquartered in an "unfriendly" nation) during the war.

    Russia also pirated a few bn Eur of leased aircraft to keep its domestic aviation going under sanctions - this seems to be down the memory hole now though. They have no leg to stand on if wailing and crying foul about their Western assets being taken off them, if and when it happens it will be just a delayed response to their own actions, because the wheels move slower in countries that are democratic.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,682 ✭✭✭Economics101


    This is totally misleading. For ecample see the well-respected CEPR: The link won't work, but overall EU income inequality has been trending downwards . There are various measures of poverty and they are difficult to compare between countries for what should be obvious reasons. n Ireland, the tax and transfer system has been highly redistributive and has contained any potential increase in inequality.

    On top of that unemployment has been low by historical standards and employment growth has been high.

    So the Russian propaganda aout immiseration in the West is just total lies. No one should use it as some sort of excuse for political extremism or somehow dumping on Ukraine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,145 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    Ukraine and Russia are changing the nature of war, with the drone asymmetry and the cost of defending against them, also have you not seen how an Iran proxy/alliy can fck up global trade with drones/missiles? The US should be very worried about the can of worms they are helping to open.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭scottser


    Of course it's total lies -it's simple deflection from their own travails. However, as inflation increases across the EU, income equality takes a corresponding nosedive. Food, rent, transport and utilities are all increasing



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The US are actively working on there own systems involving drones for the last 20 years and anti drone systems along with half of the world unfortunately Ukraine and Russia didn't change anything really other than using fpv drones more .

    The US invented Drone strikes 🤦

    Post edited by Gatling on


  • Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭Fastpud


    Surely that’s is just a play so he can be the centre of attention every year rather than being made irrelevant if countries go their own way and fund directly



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    There's currently nothing stopping individual countries sending money but the problem there is not every country can afford to send tens of millions or billions , and it's not as if Ukraine has no money at all ,

    The biggest complaint Orban currently has he wants the EU to oversee the distribution of any aid rather than handing out tens of billions over to the Ukrainian government



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,742 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    They are not really. America has been developing this technology for quite some time, as have other countries. The Houthis are an irritant, but given the consequences of allowing them to continue what they are doing they are going to be squatted like a fly by the west if they are not careful.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,145 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    the focus in the tech was large multimillion dollar drones, the push in this war is the Lancet type drones and indeed the cheap FPV ones. Russia didnt have this tech in common use 2 years ago so thats a big change and if you belive russian hype the next gen Lancets will be networked in "swarms". The west should be concerned about the cost of systems like Patriot, a Patriot round costs over a millions dollars and the system costs $400m? the obvious strategy would be to exhaust/destroy them with drones costing 10-20K

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Don't believe everything coming out of Russia, swarms of small drones won't be getting shot down by patriots,they don't do it now to the best of my knowledge



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,742 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    We see with the Patriot system in Kyiv the vast majority of drones and missiles are shot down. It's an expensive system but it's effective. If the Russians or Chinese come up with a weapon to beat it then that will be a game changer, but so far they haven't. Is the Patriot system in Ukraine even the most modern one? I thought I read somewhere it wasn't, but I could well be mistaken



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Russia seems to already found a missle that the Ukrainian have zero hits on over the last while the last big strike they only downed 18 out of 38 missiles,which suggests that they may be low on interceptors or Russia has found a way through using electronic counter measures ..

    Seems they are running low on interceptors.....

    https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-has-deficit-anti-aircraft-guided-missiles-air-force-2024-01-09/



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,742 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    What missile is this? Do you have any articles about it? Thanks.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 185 ✭✭drop table Users


    Tell us

    How are the mass “quantity” assaults using “cheap” tanks, infantry vehicles, artillery and “cheap” under equipped soldiers meat working out for Russia so far?

    why would it be any different for drones of which majority are being shot down


    With industry being directly drafted in to come up with better solutions




  • Registered Users Posts: 16,742 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Quite a high percentage of drones have been shot down by mobile AA teams. The Russians and Chinese would have to overcome Patriot, SAMP/T, THAAD and the Aegis system. American doesn't rely on just 1 system.

    I guess that's proof enough the patriots have also shot down drones.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    The KH-22 an upgraded anti ship Missle as of last week they fired 10 and all 10 hit there targets zero interceptions,seem kinzhals are getting through too , only 39% of kinzhals have been successfully intercepted over Ukraine despite their intercepts earlier in the year



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It's the Kh-22 (X-22) which is an anti-ship missile originally designed in the 1960s. What they are firing is not necessarily from the 60s, there were variants and modernizations in the 70s and 80s, also a more recent modernization (Kh-32) in the last decade. If I had to guess i'd say they are firing whatever they have, a mix of vintages.

    Russia have fired several hundred of the family without a single interception. It was 200+ in July.

    It's an enormous (40ft long) air-launched missile, something between the definition of a cruise missile and ballistic missile. It climbs rapidly to 90,000ft, flies level and then I believe around 60km from the target it cuts the engines and makes a steep dive.

    The height during the level-flight phase put it above the ceiling of most anti-air missiles. Then diving towards the target it's going very fast so it's hard to intercept. There may be other explanations why Ukraine cannot intercept them, i'd have to research.

    Against ground targets the modern version would be using inertial navigation with some terrain correction. If they're firing old ones they would be just inertial navigation. There was an anti-radiation variant also. In any case they are very inaccurate but devastating to whatever they land on.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,428 ✭✭✭macraignil


    I asked if you had evidence that China was providing military technology to russia and you just posted a graph of electronic equipment and machinery that is being sent to russia from China. I don't think this is adequate evidence to back up the claims you are making. Maybe the spikes on the graph are wealthy russians getting some new washing machines or TVs for Christmas.

    My other point about putin's forces not being stronger now was linked to figures I posted on the recorded losses they have suffered in Ukraine. The forces at the start of the war minus the numbers lost makes a smaller number with evidence I have seen that the very newest types of putin's weapons are being lost. If they wanted to start a war without the weapons being developed by modern armies elsewhere in the world for decades then that does not make them stronger now. The copperhead guided artillery round was first developed by the USA about 50years ago so to be celebrating putin's forces catching up with this type of technology since they attacked Ukraine is just sad.

    I seriously doubt your idea that eliminating the bulk of their old equipment along with the lives of huge numbers of their young men somehow will help them evolve into something stronger militarily makes any sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,801 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    They were all fired (afaik) at areas not under protection of the patriots in Ukraine.

    Same way 100% of the S300 missiles fired at Kharkiv are not intercepted. Doesn't mean the S300 can beat Patriots or SAMP/T, it just means there's none of those AA systems protecting Kharkiv.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,145 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    they were good enough to take out NATO sourced armor over the summer, which is why you dont hear much about Leopards, Challengers or Abrahms anymore. No idea on the behind the lines use of them, if Ukraine dont have to ration their air defense systems thats one thing , if there is an attrition element to this thats different or its just the cost of doing business, fire a hundred drones, 15 of them hit the warehouses etc they are trying to take out?

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    @[Deleted User] much appreciated I was driving earlier couldn't expand on my post about the KH22



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,634 ✭✭✭RoyalCelt


    How do you know all these missile's not shot down are hitting their targets? Russia has a history of inaccuracy with many missile strikes. AFAIK there wasn't even mass power outages after the most recent missile hits.



This discussion has been closed.
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