Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Fourteen migrants discovered hidden in refrigerated container at Rosslare Europort

1356710

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    We as honest taxpayers aren’t being charged anything. Funding for immigration control comes from the Exchequer. There’s another terminal planned for Rosslare expected to cost in the region of €200m (I’m being generous, we’re not paying for it), being funded by the EU -

    https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/d17fd-minister-donohoe-welcomes-outcome-of-engagement-with-commission-on-brexit-adjustment-reserve-bar/

    I don’t imagine it will be quite as simple as back to France, or back to anywhere for that matter, as you’re suggesting. They might be free to go, but they’re in a position right now where they can’t go anywhere and may have to be accommodated by the Irish State.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,580 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    The gracious thing to do would be to apologise.

    That would require a basic level of accountability.

    Take care of yourself, I won't be engaging any further with this bizarre conversation.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    No, from the Exchequer, which is still a long ways away from your attempt to infer that anyone paying taxes is being charged for anything. Everyone who has an income is required to pay tax on that income in accordance with Irish laws. The amount anyone pays in taxes has never given anyone a say in where the Government chooses to allocate revenue. The amount anyone pays in taxes in any case has no bearing on Government policy, clearly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    You’ve nothing to apologise for? You’re not responsible for far right bogeyman rhetoric, you’re just repeating what you heard somewhere else. I’ll be fine btw, precisely because I’m not concerned whatsoever about far right bogeyman or the nonsense they come out with which you shared in your earlier post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,314 ✭✭✭bloopy


    Do you guys really think that everyone else is just a bit simple and easily swayed compared to your own giant intellects?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,185 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    The exchequer is funded by taxpayers, ergo it is taxpayer funded



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    There's some discrimination against the Kurds in Turkey of course

    Are drone and missile strikes, genocide, forced displacement, not recognising them being actual Kurds technically classed as "some discrimination"? That's a new one.

    Pre-conceived bias something something.

    Maybe stay off the edge lord websites and read a book.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,900 ✭✭✭thomas 123


    If I go in a container for a few nights can I have a free house?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb



    Hm - civilian casualties in 2023 - nil. 2022 - nil. 2021 - nil. It's listed as a minor conflict in the global scheme of things. Yet you conclude that they're "more than likely fleeing some sort of horror". (I don't condone Turkey in any way here, but you can't have everyone from every small war making their way across several countries to claim a bogus asylum - bogus in the sense that they're being very selective about things)

    And you haven't explained why they skipped over Greece, Italy and France at a bare minimum.

    Can you think of any other reason they'd make such a journey? Such as just chancing their arm to get to England maybe?

    Oh, and could you drop the puerile "edgelord" nonsense and try engage in a real discussion? Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I don't condone Turkey in any way here

    You hilariously wrote it off as

    There's some discrimination against the Kurds in Turkey of course

    Anyway you have no idea what area those Kurds were fleeing.

    They are and have been one of the most persecuted groups of people on the planet.

    Can you think of any other reason they'd make such a journey?

    Yeah, I already stated. I would hope to be brave enough to do the same thing if I was dealt their shítty hand in life.

    Would you not?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    you can't have everyone from every small war making their way across several countries to claim a bogus asylum - bogus in the sense that they're being very selective about things


    There’s nothing can be done to prevent bogus asylum claims though, all that can be done is to investigate whether the person seeking asylum at the point of entry is making a legitimate claim. That can take months.

    In this particular instance though it’s as you’re suggesting most likely that they were trying to gain illegal entry into the UK, and ended up being discovered at Rosslare - there’s no indication of where they are originally from or where they are citizens (because that’s the country they would be returned to, not likely to be France), and they could have travelled through numerous countries already, because people smugglers are known to try different routes, with varying degrees of success:

    https://www.france24.com/en/20191024-uk-police-confirm-all-39-lorry-victims-were-chinese-citizens



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I wrote nothing off. I put it in context.

    I have no idea what those Kurds are fleeing? Maybe - but neither do you. (And that's ignoring the suggestion made here that some of them are Vietnamese) Yet you confidently conclude they're "more than likely fleeing some sort of horror".

    If you watch the likes of Simon Reeve (Mediterranean, North America, Greece) or Michael Palin (Sahara) where they actually talk to people making these trips, the overwhelming majority are chancing their arm. Paying thousands to crime gangs to lead them to some sort of promised land. But not fleeing any horrors as you describe. And in doing so they active hindering their countries from developing and improving in the future - after all, it's the relatively wealthy who can afford to pay the fees required, not the subsistence farmers - so the same people the country needs to hold on to to develop. So they just perpetuate the problem.

    But you still can't countenance anything of the sort. You just think anyone from an area with a minor conflict should be encouraged embark on an unnecessarily lengthy journey (you still ignore the question of why they skipped over Greece, Italy and France if they were escaping horrors), and it has to be horrors of course. Not chancery.

    So I'm curious as to your bias in all this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    you still ignore the question of why they skipped over Greece, Italy and France if they were escaping horrors

    No I didn't.

    I imagine their intended destination was the UK for reasons I have already outlined.

    I have no doubt they will try get there yet.

    Once they are processed they will be off up the North and onto some sort of vessel.

    Sure maybe they will end up in Rwanda.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Good to see that part acknowledged. All we now need to see is why you leapt to the conclusion that they were "more than likely fleeing some sort of horror", even though the vast majority of this sort of act is just chancers with (ironically) too much money on their hands.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    the vast majority of this sort of act is just chancers with (ironically) too much money on their hands.


    You can’t possibly have any idea of the profile of the vast majority of people engaged in this sort of act because the statistics are incredibly unreliable given the nature of the act.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    It's hardly a mental notion.

    Anyway, the actual "rich" people come in on student visas and just don't leave.

    Again, would you not do the same to better a shítty hand you were dealt?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Hardly mental, sure. Yet I'm curious as to why you deem it the "more than likely" notion, and hang your biases on it with no real evidence?

    I'm not talking about the rich here - I'm talking about the moderately well off. The middle class. Arguably the key to a developing economy.

    You mention the idea of civil war in Ireland and hundreds of thousands fleeing to join family in Germany and skipping over France. I'm suggesting they're more likely economic migrants - chancers. You don't address that possibility; you jump straight into "Oh, the horrors!" Yet actual interviews with similar people making similar journeys strongly backs up my view.

    I think it's patronising bordering on racist to describe being born in a poor country as a "**** hand" btw. Not idea, sure, but there's plenty of happy people in poor countries. Many regret leaving in the first place as they're taken advantage of elsewhere - they're just sold a dream by criminal gangs after their money. So I don't think it's relevant what I would do in their shoes - I think the wider picture here is that the west should strongly discourage this sort of behaviour as it self-perpetuates the economic hardships these people are trying to get away from.

    What do you think should happen these people out of interest? Asylum granted or sent straight back home?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,618 ✭✭✭20silkcut


    France is more than likely one of the chief countries behind these international obligations that we hear so much about. France is also one of the loudest critics of our 12.5% corporation tax. France also has a high burden of immigrants. So it is entirely logical that France wants Ireland to take more refugees. France is a much more powerful country than Ireland so France can quite easily dictate to Ireland that it takes more refugees. I’m sure the Irish government would rather it wasn’t in the situation it’s in having to force these people into small communities against the will of the locals. But there are forces at play here that we are not being told about bar the umbrella term of “ international obligations”. We’ll probably be drip fed it in 30 years time when it gets declassified.

    Post edited by 20silkcut on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I think it's patronising bordering on racist to describe being born in a poor country as a "**** hand" btw.

    The Kurds are technically stateless.

    And no that isn't racist, give your head a wobble.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,600 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    They could have gotten a nice comfortable flight and ripped up their passports on arrival instead of paying people traffikers through the nose and roughing it in a container. Amateurs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,543 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not relevant to the point I made. Any country can try to put pressure on other countries to help them with refugees. But they cannot dictate individuals who are allowed in.

    If someone in the government or civil service here has a Japanese buddy who wants to live in Europe, Ireland cannot grant that person permission to live in France, nor can it unilaterally order France to issue that Japanese buddy a visa to live there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,003 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Being discussed on NT now...



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    They're still inhabitants of a country. But good deflection from the rest of the post.

    Tell me - what do you think should happen to these people? Asylum approved or sent straight back home? Or somewhere in between?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,580 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Pat Kenny invoking the far right whilst engaging in unbridled nimbyism at every opportunity.

    Put asylum seeker accommodation in Dalkey/Killiney and he'll be leading the pickets.

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    The examples you gave of interviews which support your views, supporting your views is hardly surprising? There’s thousands of interviews with the victims of human trafficking which directly contradict your views, and then there’s the victims who are never interviewed:

    Women and children are particularly prone to human trafficking and becoming victims of exploitation, such as sexual exploitation, labour exploitation, forced begging, forced marriage, crime, organ trafficking and illegal adoption. The risk is imminent in particular for migrant women and children, not only during dangerous travel routes but also once they arrive in Europe. Children can disappear from reception centres and land in the hands of human traffickers. For example, research conducted in 2019 and published in 2020 in the Netherlands reported that 20% of children in the study (of a total of 1,720 children) disappeared before the end of the asylum procedure between 2015 and 2018 – and a great share of them were Vietnamese minors.

    https://euaa.europa.eu/easo-asylum-report-2021/54-victims-human-trafficking


    As for the wider picture - countries in the West already do try and discourage this type of illegal activity; EU countries for example have laws against modern slavery, and as for what should happen to the victims in terms of whether they should be granted asylum or not - by virtue of the fact that they are the victims of illegal trafficking, they are not prohibited from applying for asylum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    That be below the belt.

    Might even fall under hate speech.

    Although being against white Mayo men probably would be deemed ok.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,392 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    And there should be no rewards for it as that only encourages more trafficking. Back to their home country or France.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    There aren’t any rewards for being the victim of human trafficking? What encourages it are criminals engaging in a profitable enterprise - third most profitable after drugs and prostitution apparently. It’s definitely not as simple as sending them back to their home countries, and they’re as unlikely to be sent back to France as they are unlikely to be permitted to travel on to the UK where they were actually intending to go, in spite of any suggestions that they would seek asylum in Ireland.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I already told you what I think will happen.

    Either way, it's not up to me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Why oh why do the proponents of the modern fruit loop theory that Western countries can adopt half the people from lesser countries often eventually resort to dismissive condescending putdowns and assume anyone of a differing view are idiots and have probably never read a book or travelled.

    It is almost like they don't have actual factual arguments and they have to resort to insults or putdowns as a way of shutting down opposing viewpoints.

    It also looks like they just can't help themselves feeling all superior to the rest of us.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭gw80


    It's the white saviour effect,

    They can't see it, but they are the worst type of racist.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    People moving to better themselves is hardly a modern concept.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Good stuff Boggles. Go in swinging with personal attacks and imagined horrors specific to these people, but then back away when we get to discussing the actual practical implications of all this and completely ignore how this is self-perpetuating and actually incredibly damaging for developing economies. Not far off the "Won't someone pleease think of the children" sort of depth of understanding/analysis.

    But look, if that's all you have to offer, I think we can draw a line under this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Nick Henderson will soon be on to pontificate to us yobs on how they urgently need to be housed in 3 Bed Semis in Malahide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Discussing the actual practical implications of emigration on developing countries would mean having to acknowledge that it’s not nearly as simplistic as you’re trying to make out, portraying emigration as having a negative effect, completely ignoring it’s positive effects for developing countries (it’s how Ireland got to where we are for example):

    https://www.cgdev.org/article/myth-brain-drain-how-emigration-can-help-poor-countries-harvard-political-review



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Happy little accident for them lads, I’d love to see their happy little faces when someone tells them the welfare entitlements are even 𝘣𝘦𝘵𝘵𝘦𝘳 here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    You asked me what I think would I happen, I pointed out I already told you.

    Now you are throwing a strop.

    You keep craving nuanced debate but you have proven your interpretation is at best remedial.

    You have no intention of moving from your position, so there really is little point, is there?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    I asked you what you thought should happen. You've washed your hands of that question.

    The rest of your post is just personal attacks again - I'm throwing a strop (no I'm not) and I've proven my interpretation is at best remedial (how?).

    I'm fully open to intelligent discussion, but personal attacks and washing your hands of issues doesn't come under that heading.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    So if they arrive via a container,or by bus or train via Belfast or flights from the uk or eu they can only have been trafficked,if they destroy their documents on a flight it's only because the traffickers did it ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,901 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I've proven my interpretation is at best remedial (how?).

    Pretty much everything.

    But declaring on a public forum the Turks were just a bit discriminatory to the Kurds was the main red flag for me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 219 ✭✭Carlito Brigantes Tale


    We need to make life as hard as possible for these chancers so they spread the word back home that Ireland is done with getting taken advantage of. No hard building accommodation only tents and the bare minimum financial and health supports.

    I've seen some of the WhatsApp and Telegram groups set up to show them how to get every benefit going even down to the best social welfare office to attend and it's incredibly frustrating that this is being supported by our present government..

    Something needs to change and change quickly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,465 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    If it was to the UK they were headed then I'd say they were more interested in working* than welfare.

    They would join their existing national communities in the UK and find work* and accommodation that way.

    Not everyone who tries to enter a country illegally does so to claim asylum.

    I'd say these guys will be detained for a period of time then told to "self deport" as they are unlikely to be fleeing any war or anything.

    And they will then "self deport" to the UK to do what they had originally planned.

    *When I say work I obviously mean illegally, undocumented as it is sometimes called when referring to Irish in the US.



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    Which is still not a good situation if they are working illegally, although I don’t share your assessment of what might happen. I’d say it’s far more likely they will be coached to claim asylum here and will be in Direct Provision in no time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Must be an awful kick in the ego when you find out migrants have no interest in Ireland.

    It makes no difference what welfare entitlements are when they’re not entitled to welfare either in Ireland or the UK, which was their intended destination. Migrants take these kinds of risks for more than just the idea of welfare, and when they’re illegal, they tend to try NOT coming to the attention of the authorities by claiming asylum, welfare, use of public services such as healthcare and education, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They would be eventually they have more chances of getting welfare over Deportation



  • Registered Users Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Hungry Burger


    You’re off your rocker if you think migrants aren’t interested in Ireland, in the last year alone we’ve had what 100k Ukrainians and 80k claiming international protection? There’s so much interest, in fact, that we have nearly 500 people we are completely unable to accommodate who are living outside the IP office in Dublin! And we are so attractive, our minister for integration states he estimates another 15k per year, even though we can’t accommodate anymore! Real head scratcher, huh?





  • yeah, except these lads rang the uk police to bust themselves.

    doesn’t exactly fit your description does it?



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,318 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    There’s just no way of verifying that claim because if they’re not entitled to be in the country and they enter illegally and they’re not regularised (either Ireland or the UK), they’re not entitled to welfare, and they’re unlikely to be deported if they aren’t detected. One way they can be detected is by the authorities carrying out investigations into employers hiring illegal workers. That still doesn’t mean their claim for asylum will be approved as each case is determined on its own merits, and being denied asylum means they won’t receive any welfare benefits and will more than likely be subject to deportation orders.



Advertisement