The new recycling system

The recently introduced deposit scheme for food and drink cans is causing chaos at supermarkets, NU.nl reported.

Long queues and malfunctioning processing machines seem to be the main problem, for instance at Jumbo, which has apologised to customers at a number of branches, the news site said

Remember now.

"Convenient for Everyone"

Unofficial figures not actually from the DRS operator, which has not reported figures yet as the full scheme only rolled out from March 2023. You do appear to be digging for figures that make things look bad, going for the only scheme you can find bad (unofficial) numbers for. Selective use of figures is outright bad science.

The Netherlands has 3x the population and the number of 'collection points' appears to count three machines in a row as three, not one as they are here; so its a similar number of RVMs per capita.

People in Oregon, Denmark, Germany, Slovakia etc adapted pretty damn quickly to taking bottles home with them; as will happen here.

If you want to make it sound like you're being crucified by such an imposition, go ahead; but its not how its going to work out for the bulk of people

The Netherlands has 3x the population and the number of 'collection points' appears to count three machines in a row as three,

Have you citation for that?

Even so, 28,000 compared to less than 2,500 is not the same allowing for population.

If you want to make it sound like you're being crucified by such an imposition, go ahead; but its not how its going to work out for the bulk of people

The article is not my opinion, it refutes your claim that people on the go will use these machines or bring the waste home with them.

In Holland so far they won't and they aren't.

If you have figures that dispute that, my all means fire them up.

Because I seem to be the only one producing data here.

Yes, because thats what they do everywhere else. This isn't think, its know - I've seen and experienced how these work. And when you bring the larger amount from home, it won't be small change levels so it being 15c small change is irrelevant.

Again - have you ever, ever been somewhere with a scheme like this before?

If not, all you are saying is that you won't bother. That's not something you can expand to everyone else.

CEO of re-turn gave the 2000 figure earlier on The Last Word so maybe we should stick with the official figure

your 2500 becomes 5000-7500 immediately. For a country with a third of the population.

By your logic, that should be divided by 2/3 not multiplied.

Either way you have no citation for your claim.

I was replying to the bit that was being selectively quoted and vaunted (which specifically uses the word stop, the word you're now trying to deny), and is completely wrong.

You are trying to claim the deposit is sufficient large that it is a punishment, but yet also so small it won't encourage people to bring stuff home. Which is it? Punishment or irrelevant small change? You can't have both, its one or the other - pick one please.

Your are trying to make two, utterly incompatible arguments.

No, I'm pointing out that you are making (two sets of) two incompatible arguments. And you still haven't answered my question about whether you have ever seen such a system in operation so in default I can only assume you haven't.

This is not making recycling harder. These systems work, and well, everywhere they are implemented.

You're back to the idea that it stops people doing what they do now, despite arguing that people will continue to do so when outside. This doesn't work. Nothing is being made harder, except in your head.

Your arguments are comically incoherent and you have clearly never experienced such a scheme in the first place.

I see in my local area the mayor smaller shops are doing how return scheme as they are exempt because of floor space. On speaking to one shopper owner all he has to do is display a poster to where the nearest recycling machine is .. he presumed he would be exempt from charging the extra on cans and plastic but he has to charge the extra even though he wouldn’t be required to take back empties.

He said he is being charged the extra 15c by suppliers so under terms of the scheme he has to pass on the extra charge to customers.

I had wrongly presumed all shops had to take back empties even if they had a machine or not ..

So Ireland's approx 800 mid to large size supermarkets (over 200 Supervalu, over 150 Lidl, Aldi, Tesco, over 100 Dunnes); each of which has two to three RVMs adds up to 902 does it?

That number is sites, sorry.

There's no contract as such as (drinks producers were told to form an operator), and the scheme is likely to lose money rather than make it - if there's full compliance it will lose massive amounts of money; at the expected rate it might break even.