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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    I for one would jump on harry byrne at this low point in his value. I really like him. He gets hurt a tad too much maybe but it is rugby, guys get hurt.

    I don’t really see the match between frawley and munster. Tector doesn’t really fit there either.

    Is Conor Fitzgerald retired? They just need someone late twenties who is solid and cheap by 10 standards. Maybe not cheap but Hanrahan would have fit.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Why would Frawley want that though?

    I think if he left the natural match for him is connacht. Neither Carty or Hanrahan are unbeatable, and that is a very dynamic back line. Depending on how Forde develops as well there is a decent chance there are two other ireland players in the backs too.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 704 ✭✭✭Ben Bailey


    Yep, Frawley would absolutely be considered a starter at Connacht. That's not to say that Carty wouldn't be too, but it wouldn't hurt to have real competition at 10.

    JJ is a fine player, but goal kicking aside, he's not consistent enough.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I know Frawley seems to be dead set on being a 10 but his versatility in the future is going to so important to Leinster. If Leinster persist with a 6-2 split, he is pretty much guaranteeing himself a spot in the 23 with his ability to play fly half, centre and full back. He could go to Connacht or Ulster and maybe grab the 10 shirt but why not stay at Leinster and be an important part of the team and get lots of game time.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,915 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    At ages 24 and 25 he was the ultility back in the bench in the ERC final..... And twice didn't get off it. Not a good sign of confidence from his coaches.

    He's at the age now to sh!t or get off the pot.

    I think a move might be the best thing for him



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Just from a raw pay pov, he is probably capping himself there. You aren’t getting a central deal as a utility guy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I know the system doesn't work like this but I wonder what it would take for Leinster to get Jack Aungier back from Connacht? I'd send Rhys Ruddock, Ed Byrne and Brian Deeny in the other direction in order to get a deal done. I kind of want Leinster to hold onto 2 of the 3 NIQ designations for the future.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,757 ✭✭✭✭AdamD


    I think people overestimate the negativity of being able to play multiple positions. He wouldn't be the 'utility guy' if he was simply a better player. I don't think being only able to play one position would have helped in his career so far. Plenty of players have been 'utility guys' until they were good enough to be a starter



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Crowley is a lad from Munster, has already been assigned the "new ROG" tag. Any player moving to Munster must be aware no matter how bad Crowley plays the Munster fans will want him starting.

    The only exception to this is if Munster can produce another Munster 10.

    Players like Carbery/Frawley/H Byrne etc will never be able to get ahead of Crowley in terms of that home grown player.

    Also Carbery was a high profile and expensive player. I doubt Munster wanted to offer him the same wages he was on based on him been the now reserve 10.

    IMO it's the best move for Joey to move from Munster for his own career, it hasn't worked out for him and a few seasons overseas will work. He didn't really have an option in Ireland, Leinster have moved on. He already said no to Ulster and Connacht have Carty/JJ



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,605 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Frawley is also going to be potentially competing with Osbourne for the utility back position, and I think he'll lose out in that one. Osbourne can play across the entire backline from 11-15 at a high standard.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Rowntree and Prendergast are professionals with aspirations. They would never play crowley over a better player.

    Carbery had endless opportunities at munster and for ireland.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,737 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    A lot of this is rubbish tbh; there's plenty of examples of non-Munster players who have come in and been hugely welcomed by the fanbase.



  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    Ian Keatley definitely wouldn't be one of them though.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,737 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    And the Ian Keatley boo-ing thing is overblown. (I was in the stadium that day, it was a small pocket of fans).

    Keatley himself speaks very fondly of his time at Munster, and still lives in Limerick as far as I'm aware.

    The reality is, loads of non-Munster players have played for Munster and received loads of backing from the fans.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    Yeah, that's the case with all of the provinces. Munster are still the sole example though I can think of of an Irish team booing one of their own players. There has absolutely 100% been a tendency from some of the more rabid online based fans to turn on imports, especially Leinster imports, a bit more quickly than other players too.

    I know it wasn't a large segment of fans who booed Keatley, but calling it overblown isn't accurate.

    There are all quotes from Keatley about how it affected him:

    The worst thing was talking to mom on the phone a day or two later, she broke down crying. I said, 'Look mom, it's fine, these things happen, I'll bounce back'.

    It's so personal. People will tell you it's alright; deep down as a player you know yourself it's not. It's especially tough when you are trying your hardest. I got tweets saying, 'Is Keatley not practising his place-kicking', obviously I couldn't work harder in training but people don't see the hours, weeks, months and years that you put in. They just see you having bad moments in a game and judge you on that.

    I wasn't cracking jokes anymore; I wasn't listening to music, I love listening to music. In the car, on the way in to training I'd have my radio off, I was constantly thinking. Weird things go through your head; I wondered, 'Why am I putting myself through this?'.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,737 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Even if we grant you all of this, if it's the sole example you can think of then by definition it's the exception that proves the rule.

    It's rubbish to suggest Munster fans don't welcome non-Munster players, and and want poorer performing home-based players ahead of them.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Administrators Posts: 54,172 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    IMO Frawley would not get ahead of Burns at Ulster.

    If he can't get ahead of Harry Byrne at Leinster it's hard to see him having much of a future at 10.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    The entire frawley thing is based on farrell liking him. Otherwise, he’s just a utility back and one on borrowed time probably with osborne there.



  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    It's the sole example of booing, but Carbery has come in for some fairly harsh words from Munster fans in recent times too.

    A whole host of fans who lauded RG Snyman for years were extremely quick to turn on him and abuse him too.

    I'm not going so far as to suggest Munster fans don't welcome non-Munster players, and obviously there's a whole glut of the fanbase only too happy to keep cherrypicking players from Leinster et al where possible, but I don't think the original point was outrageous that if, for example, Harry Byrne, moved to Munster this summer and started outplaying and getting selected ahead of Jack Crowley next season, that that would be brilliantly received by sections of the Munster fanbase.

    He'd really quickly IMO become a scapegoat for any problems that happen down there.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,737 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Carberry is doing the right thing for himself. He's not starting ahead of Crowley. Unless Crowley was injured. There's no comparison really. One lad is tough as teak and skilled and the other couldn't open a bag of tayto's

    Wherever he goes, that side will be disappointed. He's just not a good outhalf.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'd say that Frawley is probably a little over rated as a 10. He's got the perfect skillet as a utility player. I would prefer him to J.O.B.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Sorry didn’t see you moved threads



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Aungier would be one I'm sure Leinster would be more than happy to welcome back. I think he is an incredibly solid TH and Leinster could do a lot worse. Despite Clarksons improved performances and development of late I think Aungier would have a higher ceiling.

    Having said that. Aungier would be going to not be a starter at one club to not being a starter at another. Would it actually be better for him? Yes one could point to the coaching etc but he's forged a pretty good path for himself so far.

    I could understand Connacht wanting Byrne but I don't see Deeny being as attractive a prospect for them with the Murray brothers, Dowling, Josh Murphy and even Thornbury (when fit) all being better prospects than him



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Utility guys have won multiple WPOTY awards and continued shifting from 10 to 15.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Zeugnis




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    It doesn't work like that, and Connacht have no use for the players you mention, nor for further personnel in those positions. How do you think Aungier became the player that he is? A combination of good coaching and opportunities to play. He has had 59 caps for Connacht, prior to his arrival he had 5 for Leinster for a grand total of 59 minutes.

    Thankfully, Leinster don't have a history of trying to serenade players away from other provinces, unlike our friends down south, whose machinations with Eddie O'Sullivan over Roman Salanoa are at the source of this TH succession problem in Dublin.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Given how Salanoa has worked out so far , I don't think Leinster have lost out on anything.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s


    Didn’t they just offer Salanoa a contract?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    Too early to tell. His injury profile has been poor (bit of a theme down south), but I quite liked what i saw of him last season. Powerful, quite dynamic in the loose.

    But regardless of his subsequent performances, had Salanoa not told Leinster he was committed to them, they would have been less likely to give Aungier the ok to move west.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Zeugnis




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm pleased with Clarksons contributions recently. He's done well. Better than I expected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 774 ✭✭✭Zeugnis


    I have heard nothing about Leinster offering Salanoa a contract of late. Or do you mean in 2020?



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I doubt that Leinster have a chance at getting Salanoa back. The succession plan for Munster seems fairly clear next year with Loughman and Wycherley on the loosehead side and Jager and Salanoa on the Tighthead side with Dave Kilcoyne, John Ryan and Stephen Archer all ready to call it a day. They also have Ronan Foxe and Darragh McSweeney coming through at TH also.

    Ideally Leinster would try and get Salanoa off Munster, or Jack Aungier off Connacht or Marty Moore off Ulster but realistically, There would be uproar if any of these former Leinster academy players went back to Leinster. The only way this would happen is if they actively made it clear that they don't plan to re-sign with the province they are with and Leinster go after them.

    Realistically, Leinster will have to use a NIQ designation to replace Ala'alatoa.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,174 ✭✭✭PMC83


    I wonder would they want him back? Leo seemed pretty miffed that he went in the first place



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Leo was annoyed that the succession plan for the tighthead position was completely dismantled in the space of 12 months. Losing Salanoa, Aungier and Ilo. Salanoa seemingly pushed back at going to Munster at the time (Alan Quinlan has refuted this).

    Three quality young prospects left to get game time and Leinster out of necessity were forced to go out and get Michael Ala'alatoa to fill in the spot vacated by Andrew Porter moving to loosehead.

    At the time of the players leaving to go to the other provinces, there was a very defined 1st and 2nd choice at tighthead with Furlong and Porter so it is understandable why the sought opportunities elsewhere.

    Salanoa should stay at Munster, he is clearly the second choice behind Jager long term. Ilo has only recently signed an extension with Connacht so he isn't going anywhere.

    Jack Aungier and Marty Moore are the only two replacements capable of stepping into Ala'alatoa's shoes for Leinster due to their contracts expiring at the end of the season. In the eyes of the other provinces, it is a damned if you do, damned if you don't. If Leinster sign one of Aungier or Moore, Leinster get stronger and the other province get weaker. If Leinster go the NIQ route, they could potentially land a Vincent Koch or Trevor Nyakane and get even stronger.

    Regardless, Leinster will sign a tighthead prop and more than likely, they are going to be a borderline starter for their country because of Furlong's injury history.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,531 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Is Nyakane even any good these days? He's 34 and Racing let him go and they're not exactly overloaded with quality props.

    Maybe we should try sign a big boi like Ntlabakanye or Colombe, for the laugh.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Nyakane looked good during the world cup when he played. He left Racing as his contract had ended and they probably wanted to go younger.

    Leinster don't need him to be a multiple year starter, they just need someone who will bridge the gap next season.



  • Administrators Posts: 54,172 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Marty Moore wouldn't suit Leinster at all. I don't think Leinster would be remotely interested in him.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Yeah I don't think it will be Moore, I was just using him and Aungier as examples of Irish tighthead props who are out of contract at the end of the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,640 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Furlongs injury profile and his form declining are worrying. He's certainly not as brilliant as he was just a couple of years ago. If he is declining, does Porter switch back? At least from a Leinster perspective, there's got to be temptation. I'm guessing that Furlong is being managed or will be managed to a high degree to get him back firing. These niggling are a bastard. It's like being killed by a thousand cuts. At 80%, Furlong is still a top player though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    If I had to guess, they aren't going to move Porter back until Jack Boyle is to international standard which could take around 18 months or so.

    That's why it makes a world of sense for them to go out and get someone like Trevor Nyakane for next season to allow Boyle to get his experience.

    They have Boyle, Milne and Paddy McCarthy waiting in the wings. Maybe they might have to get a loosehead for a season or two if Porter did move back. Either way a LH prop will need to be brought in to replace porter going back to TH or a TH to replace Ala'alatoa.



  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    Furlong isn't carrying an injury in recent weeks - he's been out since his father, a relatively young man, passed away.

    He has also been dealing with the fact his father was struggling with lung cancer for the past 12 months - so it's easy to assume some of that was weighing on him and impacting his performances.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    His fathers passing is bound to rock his world to his core. I think he is doing the right thing taking the time out to grieve and come to terms with the loss.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,551 ✭✭✭ulsteru20s




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,313 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's incredibly important to remember that players , even superstars are people first and foremost, with all the "stuff" going on in their lives that we all have in our lives.

    Furlong will have been dealing with a lot in recent months and I'm sure there are lots of other players in the various squads dealing with all sorts of stuff in the background at various stages - Family issues , Relationships , Illnesses and so on.

    Cut everybody some slack...

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    I don't see Porter moving back to tighthead and id hope the discussion would be put to bed.

    First off it would have to be a discussion with and ultimately a decision by the irish management team as they pay his centrally contracted wages. Ireland is suitably set at tighthead with a depth chart of Furlong, bedhlam, o'toole and very recently sanctioned the move for Jager. Nationally the depth chart at loose head is not nearly as deep.

    We were going to the world cup with Porter and two lads around 35 until Healy got injured.

    While there is great potential In Milne, boyle etc. Its only potential for another year or 2. Loughman has been good at times.. but nationally the depth chart for the next 12-18 months is worse at loosehead than tighthead so why would Porter move

    Post edited by Must love hardship on


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