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Is there life after death or maybe life on other planets?

245

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,473 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I always flirt with death. I look ill but I don't care about it. I can face your threats. And stand up straight and tall and shout about it

    I think I'm on another world with you. With you. I'm on another planet with you. With you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Came from a fairly religious family ould pair used go to mass every morning yes 7 morning a week 8 o clock morning Mass, looking back they had great purpose, great hope and lived very happy fullfied lives. I forget what age I was that I stoped believing but it was very sad, I suppose its like a child believing in santa, same thing, now I have my own family we still do holy communion, confirmation and mass one's a year just a community thing for me now. So it's a No and a probably from me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    But but......according to the (not so) Christian Brothers that tried to educate me we are all going to "rise up" on "the last day"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,489 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I have a vague memory of bacteria being detected in material taken from another planet and evidence that there was once water there. Was it Mars?

    I think it was in the stratosphere of Venus, some radio frequencies detected that were said could only be generated by living organisms like bacteria. Something like that which turned out to be inconclusive.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,382 ✭✭✭Tefral


    ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,382 ✭✭✭Tefral


    Ha! You are correct. That would only be 1% of a billion. Dunno how I missed that.


    Just goes to show you, the probability is even higher. Thanks for reinforcing my point.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    whats the difference between an atheist and an "extreme" atheist?

    atheism is just a rejection of the god claim.



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    all religious people are ideologically motivated so i guess that rules them out too



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,699 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Not sure you’ve thought that through… Because if future time travellers will have a past to travel back to then presumably people in that past aren’t aware of that future and that their present is a past to that future. It’s just their present like our present is ours. What I’m getting at is how do you know our present is the front of the timeline? We could be one of those pasts a future time traveller might arrive at any moment now? Plus who’s going to say they’ll tell us? Isn’t that what they say about time travel, that you must not mess with the past? Which presumably includes telling people about time travel from the future?

    I love time travel brain farting. It’s all crazy thought stuff of the proper whacky type.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    The word extreme I suppose, like everything in life some people are more doctorate in their ideology - love to push their beliefs on other peole. Atheism is the same. No difference between Richard Dawkins and the local priest imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 408 ✭✭Starfire20


    atheism is the lack of belief in the god claim.

    atheists would love if the religious could actually put forth a shred of actual proof for their supernatural beliefs but no such proof is forthcoming. instead we're treated to a display of mental gymnastics and word play to convince us that we don't need actual proof, we just need to "trust me,bro" instead.

    no thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Enoch Burke and his family are an example of religious extremists. There are plenty of religious people who quietly practice their faith.

    Extreme atheists talk regularly about their lack of faith, mock religious people and seem to believe they are more intellectual than believers. Less extreme atheists just don't have faith and don't feel the need to talk about something they don't have. No one suggested that some atheists believe in a god less than others, you either believe or you don't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,490 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    I expect they will only start to do time travelling when it gets near the time that the sun is going to eat up the earth and the rest of our local planets.They wouldn't want to be around for that. But it won't be for about five billion years, so they are probably in no hurry. And they would be happy enough to go back to some nice time, say two billion years from now. So in two billion years time, whoever is on earth then will meet them coming back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,489 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Oh that's 1996, this is the much more recent Venus one from 2020 I was thinking of.

    Scientists have detected phosphine on Venus. On Earth, this gas is created by microbes that live in oxygen-free environments. It means there is a chance that we've found signs of living organisms in the clouds of our neighbouring planet.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,490 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bad idea to put life forms from Venus and Mars in contact.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,624 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Organised religion or whatever have faith in a supreme being where as atheist have faith in the big bang. What's the difference ? Both require a certain amount of faith .



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    I find your logic difficult to follow.

    Why on a near infinite number of planets is there more likelihood of life than a god?

    You would be basing your assumption that as our one planet has life with no proven God in residence, then all these planets must also contain no God even if they do have life.

    Personally I would base my case for the visible planets having no God by the fact that the occupants are not all blowing themselves up in order to carry out their spiritual deities wishes.

    So life their might be, but the lack of planets being destroyed by nuclear devastation is a sure fire indicator that there is no supreme being to "guide the faithful".



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  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    Strange, I wondered if anyone else thought that too.

    I tend to respect and agree with most of his writings, but I am always a tad concerned when someone is so absolutely sure.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,803 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Probably not much life on those planets where it rains molten glass or molten iron.

    With winds of over 8,000Km/hr you're going to need a special umbrella.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,297 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    Ahh now, I’m with you on the first bit - atheism is the lack of belief in the existence of a deity or deities (I would usually have said absence, as ‘lack’ implies something is lacking - there’s nothing lacking, it’s just not there, ie - no value judgement).

    But as for what atheists would love? That strays into the territory of associating atheism with anti-theism, two easily distinguished concepts which are often mistakenly conflated to produce the idea of militant or strident atheists.

    Dawkins for example could easily be described as both an atheist and anti-theist, he did promote the concept of the spectrum of theistic probability in his book The God Delusion, although I’d safely say most of the people who recommend the book have never actually read it themselves (it’s a slog), not nearly as interesting as the blind watchmaker or the selfish gene.

    I couldn’t recommend any of those books though because the OP made it clear they weren’t interested in that sort of stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,266 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Life after death? NO.

    Life on other planets? Yes...but be sure that once us humans are capable of travelling to other worlds, the first thing well do is exploit its resources, kill the natives, destroy the eco system and then once its all gone, we'll move onto the next one!



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 GeorgeStobart2022


    Have you considered that there's maybe no God but life after Death or a God and no Life after Death , its best not to dwell on it too much , feel free to believe what you believe and make the most of this life because even if you live to be 90 its short in the grand scheme of things

    Regarding life on other planets considering there are 200 billion to 2 trillion Galaxies the odds are there probably is some Alien life elsewhere however the Galaxy we live in is for all intensive purposes a universe in itself because its so vast and so far away from our nearest Galaxy that the technology probably will never exist to visit other galaxies either because its beyond our capabilities or human beings wont survive long enough . There could be 1 Alien life per Galaxy 200 billion to 2 Trillion but we are so far apart from each other none of us will ever meet . Another theory is that Aliens do exist but we are as oblivious to them as Bacteria or insects are to us. They exist on a much higher plane of consciousness



  • Registered Users Posts: 759 ✭✭✭Slightly Kwackers


    And after ridiculing them as spongers throw them out of their tents and ship the refugees off to Pluto when they come to Earth in their escape pods absolutely starving and destitute?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,659 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Except Dawkins backs up his assertions with the solid position that there is a sheer lack of evidence to account for the existence/belief in a god or, indeed, gods. Dawkins has also investigated his position and has tested it and had it subjected to tests over numerous decades. He has also debated, argued and discussed his position with many, many, people who are on the other side of the hill, as it were, in an effort to continually test his position.

    The local priest believes (assuming his does actually believe), simply because he believes.

    Dawkins has a scientific approach. An approach which requires a level of proof before proceeding. The priest simply has theology and made up stories.

    Saying there's "no difference" between the two is absolutely ludicrous.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 222 ✭✭Murt2024


    My only fear of death is reincarnation, busting on my adversaries like a mental patient.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,272 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    If you could prove with science that God existed, then that would mean he/she/it was very much a part of the physical universe and not a supernatural being or entity.

    So it's a little idiotic of Dawkins to claim 'Science proves there is no God'.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,784 ✭✭✭✭cj maxx


    Definitely life on other planets imo . Intelligent life , ? I don’t know , but given the billions of habitable planets for us , you would expect intelligent life has started somewhere else .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,066 ✭✭✭✭PTH2009


    You'd think himself would of came to help during Covid

    Not yet world Not yet



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    Where does time or space end? We as humans really know nothing at all. Of course, if you are not religious then life after death seems totally illogical, we see that people die, brain activity ends and then that's it. So in that respect yes proof shows there is no life after death.

    However when I think about things, so many possibilities play through my head, what if we are in an endless loop in time? Maybe we are destined to relive our lives over and over again but will never know anything about it? Or is our consciousness transferred to another plane of existence after we take our last breath?

    Or maybe there is nothing else. Either way, we can never know one way or the other for sure.

    As for life on other planets? There is no proof, but I just can't imagine how we could be the only life in our Universe, I think one day we may develop the technology to prove it, but I don't think any of us alive today will ever see this happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,658 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    I understand what you are saying, but extreme is the wrong word. For example, somebody who is vocally islamic, is still just a Muslim, not an Islamic extremist which is another thing entirely. Using the same scale for atheist extremist would need them to be similarly radical. What you are describing is more like a person who is assertively vegan, always pressing their views on others, etc.

    Somebody using describing something as "extremely atheists" likely does understand the concept.

    What's the difference?

    Well for a start, there is absolutely zero evidence of a supreme being. And plenty of evidence that their supposed story of creation is incorrect.

    On the other hand, there is quite a lot of evidence that the Big Bang, or an event similar to the Big bang created the universe. Whether the theory is exactly right or not is irrelevant.



  • Registered Users Posts: 79 ✭✭Condor24


    Our consciousness is proof we're here for some reason. We're all individuals. Why am I me? I go to sleep every night, and wake up in the morning. I'm me, no one else. Surely there is a reason for this. So, there is something, I believe, after we 'die' here. And we cannot apply our limited human knowledge to how incredible that could be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,658 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    That first statement is not even remotely true. There is nothing about "supernatural entity" that states or implies they are not part of the physical universe. Vampires, Witches, Dragons are all supernatural beings. If they existed (they don't) they would exist in the physical universe and could be confirmed via the scientific method.

    The various religion's books (on which the main Abrahamic religions are based) are full of stories of "God" (under various names) interacting with the physical universe. The story of creation is literally God shaping the physical universe - therefore interacting with it at that time. And of course, Christ spent 32 years in corporeal form.

    So no, it would not be impossible for science to proved God exists because he is supernatural and doesn't interact with the physical universe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    No evidence of either ... is the easy answer ...

    The more complicated answer is ... we do not really know what life means or how it originated ... or what ultimately created it ... or what its purpose is ... we know human religion is a man made thing and often abused to oppress us ... the concepts of heaven, hell, purgatory, limbo and other such 'places' are manmade too ... if there is an afterlife it will not be exactly any of these places depicted ...

    As regards life on other planets .... look at the sky .... most stars are suns like ours ... only a few are the planets like Mars, Jupiter and Venus ... each star that is not a vision of our fellow solar system planets is a sun .... each with planets around it .... so there is bound to be life out there but we have not seen it ...

    Life on other planets prob is not like what is here ... different types of creatures ... maybe more, the same or less advanced that here ... are likely to exist ... our concepts of 'little green men' are manmade too ... simply more ugly versions of humans !! ...

    UFOs are real ... but are not likely to be aliens ... indeed almost certainly not aliens ... they are likely to be American, Russian, etc. devices spying on each other !! ...



  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Tiger20


    I have come back from the future, I am born on the planet { in the year 2345 (according to your current methods of recording time), but for future generations in the year dot, and die, thanks to the latest medical advances and our diet of only consuming inhabitants of the planet { (which we colonised in the year 6789), or the year dot for some of you, I die in the yea pi.

    In answer to the original question, having thought of it for some time, I think no and no



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 190 ✭✭NeutralHandle


    You weren't alive before you were born and you aren't going to be alive after you die. Those are the limits of your existence in the dimension of time. Imagining that you exist beyond them makes no more sense than imagining you extend infinitely into space beyond the top of your head.

    There's a lot of other planets so probably yes. We know that life can develop on a planet because we exist, so given an extremely large number of planets there are probably others that have life. We also know life can develop radio communication, because we did. We haven't found any clear evidence of alien radio communication though, and we have been looking.

    There has been life on earth for billions of years but radio communication only for about a hundred. One interpretation is that species don't use radio communication for very long, probably because they tend to die or regress relatively soon afterward, or possibly they find another technology that makes it redundant.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭paddyisreal


    Let me put this another way can you or anyone be a million percent sure in what they believe in? It all requires some level of faith. And before the big bang ? Some gases ! And before the gases ? Something else . The big bang most definitely requires. a leap of faith



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,247 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166 ✭✭CWMMC


    I do not believe there is a life after death per say but I think when you die your subconscious will be active for a little while in which it is almost like dream state in which seconds turn into hours.


    Given the vast size of space and how undiscovered most of it is I do believe there is some form of life on other planets.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,418 ✭✭✭positron


    Science is a rigorous, systematic endeavor that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world.

    So if someone's idea of God is beyond "science" (which by definition, is learning, changing, evolving), the problem is not with science, is it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 10 dexterden6


    Positron,

    Scientific understandings are inherently flawed and biased due to the philosophical assumptions of materialism and naturalism (the belief that nature/ natural processes, is all there is, ever was or ever will be).

    Science is based on philosophical materialism or methodological atheism. If the foundation is rotten the whole unit will collapse, this includes evolutionary science that deals with the origin of humanity including all the dating methods as they all contain underlying assumptions and beliefs derived from naturalistic worldviews.

    Darwin's theory and the Big Bang theory are all derived from this worldview. Science either has to prove God doesn't exist (no spirit / no supernatural realm) to be confident in their convictions about the nature of reality.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,349 ✭✭✭nozzferrahhtoo



    In my experience it tends to be people with no evidence of something whatsoever, that start equivocating over what does or does not constitute "evidence" in the first place. Equivocation that if I am forced into I tend to simply say that for me "evidence" has always been a process rather than a thing. The process being 1) Establish as clearly as possible what you are claiming 2) Establish as clearly as possible the things you think support that claim and 3) Explain as clearly as possible how each thing offered in 2 support the claim in 1 and why you think so.

    A simple process. One might think. But it is not a process that goes anywhere with the "god" conversation in my experience.

    I for one am all for "opening your mind to other ways of thinking" but unfortunately all too often in my experience when someone says "open your mind" they are actually saying "accept what I am saying wholesale without any basis whatsoever". Which is not what I Think being "open minded" means. Not even a little bit.

    Being "open minded" to me simply means being willing to adopt a new idea, or divest yourself of an old idea, if given sufficient reason to do so. And I have simply been shown zero reasons ever to even suspect there may be a "god" let alone to actually start beleiving there is one. So there would be nothing whatsoever "open minded" about me beleiving there is one. That would be delusion.

    However as a slight nod towards what you are saying, I did myself well over 20 years ago stop asking theists solely for "Evidence of a god" in conversations on the topic. And I entirely avoid the word "proof" because I think that is too demanding. And I did these things because it always ended up in equivicating over what "evidence" is and what "god" is with all their rhetorical hand waving and dodging to distract from the fact they had NOTHING to offer.

    So whenever I enter such a conversation nowadays (almost never to be honest) I tend to ask "Do you have any arguments, evidence, data OR reasoning to offer that lends even a modicum of credence to the notion a non-human intelligent intentional agency is responsible for the creation and/or subsequent maintenance of our universe"? Because if they have nothing for the first half, then the conversation is over. If their idea of "god" differs from the second half then the conversation is also likely over as we are talking about different things than, say, the Monotheistic god of Christianity or Islam or similar and we are just talking past each other.

    So it is a sentence that has served be very well in saving my time AND theirs.

    Guess what? They STILL got nothing. Despite my casting of this new, wider, more inclusive, less demanding net. Nadda. Zilch. Nuffin. Bugger all. Diddly Squat.

    There are any number of hypothesis to the question of why/how we come to find outselves in this universe. And hypothesese are good things. They fuel innovation, immagination, inquiry and intellect. But the fact remains that that vast majority of these hypotheses remain not just slightly, but ENTIRELY unsubstantiated at this time with nothing to move them off a zero credence point. Should that at any point change, or if you yourself become aware of arguments, evidence, data or reasoning that I might have missed (and hopefully pass even the most basic of the tests for the common list of fallacy) then I remain as I have always been.... absoutely agog to hear them.

    I am not convinced you know what the word "Faith" means given you are misuing it quite a lot. I am also not sure you understand the concept of "Percent" given you are asking "a million percent" sureness on the topic. Surely 100% is the maximum by definition? Yet scientists will often tell you that pretty much nothing in Science is considered 100% true for example.

    However I do not think using "faith" or "%" is in and of itself meaningful in the first place for a conversation like this. Rather what you could be doing is thinking of ANY idea.... be it "god" or the "Big bang" or "my wife is cheating on me" or "homoepathy is effecious medicine" and placing every single one on the zero point of a continuum of "belief". One end of the continuum is "Definitely 100% true" and the other is "Defnitely 100% false". And any new idea starts exactly in the middle at the "zero" point.

    You can then look for actual reasons to move the idea along that continuum from the zero point. In either direction.

    There are many evidences in science for the "Big Bang" for example. So this idea gets moved by each evidence along the continuum TOWARDS "Definitely 100% true" but it never reaches "100%". Nothing does in my opinion. Things just get closer than others. In science for example when something gets very far along it gets the label "Theory". Which is pretty much the highest accolade an idea gets in science. It does not mean the same as "theory" in vernacular speech. "Atomic Theory" or "Evolution Theory" basically means we are as sure about these things being true as science allows. But again no one here claims 100%. And any scientist that does should be reminded of this.

    Other ideas like the idea there is a god have no reasons to move them off the 0 point. There would appear to be no evidences for OR against such a hypothesis. So it just languishes on the zero point with anything else people have just dreamed up. Like Leprauchans and fairies.

    This does not mean there is a god. This does not mean there is no god. It just means there is nothing there to motivate belief in either direction that I have found. So I dismiss the hypothesis as unsubstantiated at this time and move on without it.

    Not one ounce of what I described there is how I treat the big bang or god demends or even requires any "faith" whatsoever. Which is why I suspect you are misusing the word somewhat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,659 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    As for life on other planets? There is no proof

    But there is "proof". There's life on THIS planet. In fact it's teeming with life. So there's proof enough to posit a theory that given the fact that there are trillions and trillions of planets out there, on he balance of probability, there has to be some that will have a form of life on them.

    The problem, though, with these kind of conversations is that people tend to think of "alien" life as something akin to us, when it could be more akin to fish or plankton, or even the humble amoeba.

    By the way, in about 3 to 5 billion years time, this planet will be a lifeless rock too. The slow death of our sun will destroy all life on Earth.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,659 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    There is no proof we're here for any reason at all. This idea comes from humanity's chauvinistic belief that we are important somehow and the reality is is that we're not. We are a mere blip in a wider universe that we have little understanding of. We prefer to believe that we are the centre of things, because the realisation that we are not and that eventually we become nothing is a very difficult idea to come to terms with.

    There is no reason you or anyone else exists. You just do so for a limited time and you are entirely insignificant to the universe.



    Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. - Carl Sagan



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,083 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...im not sure id agree with that....

    ...theres clearly some serious issues in the here and now, on this planet.....

    ...but anyhow, no theres probably not a life after death, its here and now, and thats it....

    ....definitely microbial life on other planets, but as for intelligent life, maybe not....

    ...if you believe otherwise, shur best of luck to you and yours....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,490 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    My great great something grandfather was probably a bacterium. I'd hate to think I am descended from a microbe. Or something from Africa.

    "All life on Earth evolved from a single-celled organism that lived roughly 3.5 billion years ago."



  • Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭Baseball72


    Life after death? Yes, 100%


    Life on other planets - maybe, but not necessarily "life as we know it"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,276 ✭✭✭✭Sleepy


    The entire concept of life after death is a childish form of self-delusion clung by those to weak to accept reality or too gullible to resist the false promises of organised religion. Every living thing dies and our remains decompose (unless eaten, burned, dissolved in acid or the like).

    Life on other planets seems a probabilistic certainty but whether that life exists/existed in the same timeframe as that of our species / planet is unfortunately rather less likely.



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