The new recycling system

 And are now relying on something that is clearly a site count not an RVM count.

It clearly states RVMs - No of Units. No where does it state a site count.

Did you do the maths to notice that the figure per supermarket is significantly higher than per small shop, because it is for more machines?

Because not all these machines are the same size.

Also

"There will be over 2000 reverse vending machines in our stores" - CEO of Re-Turn. (Matt Cooper Show 10-1-24).

The amount of extremely badly put together arguments with bad science in terms of data on this thread is staggering.

I 100% agree you have offered absolutely no evidence to back up your spurious claims.

I have outlined at length previously why there will be additional car journeys.

Here's it in a nutshell for you again.

• Most small-medium supermarkets have 1 rvm, the larger ones have 2.
• We are sold the idea that we will drop off our bottles with our normal shopping trip
• assuming everyone does that shops have peak times, the most peak time being after work weekly, social welfare Thursdays, Friday evenings, and all day Saturday.
• If everyone goes with their bottles they will be undoubtedly met by someone at the machine using it. Will they have a black bag or two of bottles and cans? Maybe, maybe not. The key point is there is friction introduced instantly.
• Friction will make the person with the one bottle fire it in the general waste anyway, but more importantly the family will just put their bottle back in the car and come back at a quieter time especially to deposit the bottles as we all currently do with the glass jars.

If this was a new system, i.e. we only had black bins till now, there would be a case but as its stands its just putting an onus on the tax payer and not the councils, private waste companies etc to get their act together in relation to the percentage of plastics and cans presented to them for recycling.

EPA figures have been shared on here, those are not what percentage is collected but what percentage of what is collected that is actually recycled. Ergo there is no factual basis for this scheme in my opinion.

Exactly, in no way has the current system been "completely dismantled". The current system is very much in place for those who want to use it. Your green bin will still be used for all other recyclables e.g. card, cardboard, paper, milk bottles, other types of cans.

Boggles jumps on any ambiguity in the wording of anyone supporting the scheme. It is his opinion that the current scheme has been "completely dismantled", its not a fact. A line he loves to use.

Or do you also believe the current system has been "completely dismantled"?

..

The gains are not proven to be environmental either - we have to wait and see as you say. What's to say this wont just be incinerated also? Absolutely nothing.

It has not been "completely dismantled", that is false.

I'll try once more although I think your obtuseness is impregnable.

Right now we are incentivised to recycle.

When this scheme goes live recycling in the same way is penalised, twice.

Once by the increase from the collection companies and once by the loss of deposit.

Financially penalising someone for recycling is a complete dismantling of the current system.

You still haven't explained how it will cause additional car journeys though. Unless, are you suggesting people will

1. go to the supermarket at a busy peak time

2. not wanting to queue for a RVM they'll put their recycling back in the car, still do their shopping at said peak time

3. Plan a journey at a later time for the sole purpose of claiming a few quid on a shopping voucher

That sounds like a highly unlikely scenario. It's much more likely in that scenario that shopper will come back at a quieter time to do their shopping and returning at the same time

Will my bin charges rise as a result of this new RVM scheme that will take bottles and cans from my 'green' bin?? Answer me that.

Why should I, a responsible recycler, now have to segregate these bottles and cans and put them through a separate anti litter system?

Thats an opinion. Not a fact.

Am I going to be financially penalised for recycling as I currently do it.

Yes or No?

This is the question that is being asked (will be asked when people become aware of its impact) by households up and down the country. The answer seems to be a shrug of the shoulder and it is what it is, get a life and get on with it. Basically chalk it down to taking one for the team so the brand IRL Inc avoids a scolding from our EU betters. At least thats how Im rationalising it😂

Indeed and in time we'll hear politicians wringing their hands about inflation and cost of living. When they themselves are a driver of inflation and putting more costs on individuals and businesses.

Where on earth did people get the idea that the machines will give out cash?

I suppose the logic there is that the RVMs will be faster as you are only dropping/scanning cans and bottles into a machine rather than scanning and bagging an entire weekly shop so the time taken would be a lot less than at a till

Do you have proof that RVMs cause these massive queues in Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Germany, Malta, Norway, Lithuania, the Netherlands or Sweden where they are used regularly?

Yes so why did you mention "the sort of coins that nobody really wants" when the machine does not give out coins?

Nobody is going to bother to redeem a voucher for 15c. They'll either offset a purchase or wait until they have a few vouchers to redeem.

Really though there should be the option to collect the refund onto a contactless debit card.

there is 1, right inside the door of a busy supermarket. people won't be bothered queueing up. the majority of people i see collecting in a few of those countries are down and outs, collecting them from being left on the streets. It was that way 25 years ago in Holland/Germany, and the same the last time I was there. maybe we need more homeless around to collect the cans and bottles