Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

dylanyahoo · 11-01-2024 2:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601639#Comment_121601639

How about keeping up with the minimum wage increase? Because that went up over 12.3% in one go.

crinkley · 11-01-2024 2:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601678#Comment_121601678

personally I have no issue with narrowing the pay gap for the lowest paid

KaneToad · 11-01-2024 2:40pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601678#Comment_121601678

Kevin Callinan made this point on RTE radio. Referenced the % increases in minimum wage & social welfare payments. He has a point.

NapoleonInRags · 11-01-2024 2:42pm

The 8.5% being quoted is misleading as it includes the sectoral bargaining provision - which may not necessarily be given as a general increase. 7% over 2.5 years is more accurate.

channelsurfer2 · 11-01-2024 2:44pm

Looks like the government are playing hardball like the UK Government. Kevin Callinan may start ringing his friend in the RMT Mick Lynch for tips on how to win public sympathy on the picket line....

noodler · 11-01-2024 2:56pm

12% for lower paid apparently

Francis McM · 11-01-2024 2:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601668#Comment_121601668

RTE is heavily unionised had has a public sector outlook. It is subsidised by the taxpayer and has security from government. RTE is not private sector. Ryan Tubs thought he was worth the salary RTE was paying him, now in the real world he is working for a fraction of that - and probably glad to get it. Lesson there somewhere.

And you ask if you "want unionised in the private sector and campaign for improvements, what do you suggest". I suggest you are 40 /45 years too late, as lots of people then did join unions in the private sector, threatened to go or did go on strike etc but the firms either closed down or else relocated elsewhere in the world. The vast bulk of the 1.8 million people (or whatever) in the private sector now are not in unions.

When you look at everything you buy or bought, from your phone to the I.T. to your clothes to your holidays to the house you live in to your food to your retail purchases to your entertainment / social spending etc, what % of the workers there are or were in unions? F. all. And there is a reason. Unionised firms could not compete.

bailey99 · 11-01-2024 3:02pm

Initial Government offer was 7.5% over 2.5 years, then increased to 8.5% over 2.5 years. Breakdown is below.

1.5pc or a minimum of €750 from March 1 this year
2pc from October 1 this year
1pc on March 1 next year
1.5pc or a minimum of €750 on August 1 2025
1.5pc on February 1, 2026
plus 2pc paid in a “local bargaining” clause to deal with other claims

The Union were right to turn that down. It is pathetic. 3.5% this year, majority of it coming in the last 3 months, so behind inflation and losing purchasing power again. Nothing back-dated either despite taking a 9.5% real wage cut from 2021-2023. For a 10 month period there 02/10/24 to 31/07/2025 there's a1% increase. Who thinks that's what inflation will be across a 10-month stretch like that including the winter months?!

I would gain respect for the Unions if they sezied the initiative here, pulled out of talks, and balloted for industrial action.

5 months to local and european elections. Lot of people will remember what they employer thought of them and thought they were worth at the ballot box.

lbunnae · 11-01-2024 3:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601698#Comment_121601698

No I don’t think it does. It’s just the breakdown was originally 7.5% and they upped it by 1% we just didn’t get an updated breakdown.

Norrie Rugger Head · 11-01-2024 3:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601806#Comment_121601806

He was a private contractor. He WAS private sector

Ezeoul · 11-01-2024 3:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601847#Comment_121601847

Drip, drip, drip....

solidasarock · 11-01-2024 3:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601847#Comment_121601847

Yeah. Screw that. Happy they turned that down.

That just looks exactly like the previous lackluster deal but with a loner timeframe.

bailey99 · 11-01-2024 3:17pm

1.5pc or a minimum of €750 from March 1 this year
2pc from October 1 this year
1pc on March 1 next year
1.5pc or a minimum of €750 on August 1 2025
1.5pc on February 1, 2026
plus 2pc paid in a “local bargaining” clause to deal with other claims

the above adds upto 9.5% not 8.5%, so the offer is even less than the above detail. Hard to see an agreement without some industrial action imo

Francis McM · 11-01-2024 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601903#Comment_121601903

He was working for RTE, which is subsidised by the government / taxpayer and has security from government. The majority of RTÉ's activities are of a public service nature. Tubs had the same mentality as most of those in RTE and though he was worth what he was paid there.

Now he has walked in to the private sector and only earns a fraction ( rumoured 50 to 70k a year), and probably glad to get it.

Do you think if the government gives pay rises it should be paid by

(a) cuts in services

(b) extra government borrowing, to be repaid plus interest by our grandkids

(c) extra taxation - how exactly?

Norrie Rugger Head · 11-01-2024 3:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601989#Comment_121601989

Cool, so I can ask (from my employer) to pay me the same as the contractors in here? If contractors are seen as the going rate.

Bumper raise for me

Here is the REAL reason you are posting bile. You just don't want public sector workers getting a fair slice. Your mask is slipping

Do you think if the government gives pay rises it should be paid by

(a) cuts in services

(b) extra government borrowing, to be repaid plus interest by our grandkids

(c) extra taxation - how exactly?

Bobby2004 · 11-01-2024 3:25pm

It's above what I thought they would offer. I think 8.5% is not bad. Obviously i'd take more if offered. My bigger issue would be the length of the agreement.

8.5% over two years would be better. Would have to see 10% to commit to 2.5 year agreement.

It's a good starting point at least.

Norrie Rugger Head · 11-01-2024 3:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602007#Comment_121602007

^^^^^^^

Jesus Christ, no wonder the unions didn't advertise it.

There are always some who think an effective paycut is a fine deal

Gusser09 · 11-01-2024 3:31pm

It's the 2.5 years is the catch here. I'd have happily taken this over 2 years. 2.5 isn't doable though.

I can see govt. coming back with 2 years as they stare down the barrel of possible industrial action.

I think that anything over 8 percent would pass over 2 years.

channelsurfer2 · 11-01-2024 3:31pm

its a pathetic offer. as others have pointed out an increase of 1% over a 10month period for a part of it. DPER have no intention of doing a deal with this offer and they knew the unions would run a mile from it. No matter how they try to spin it to their journalist pals there is now way any union could recommend this "offer" to their members without risking half of them stopping their subs to make up for the loss of purchase power with inflation.

bren2001 · 11-01-2024 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121601659#Comment_121601659

I really don't care when people say "you're getting an X raise". If the headline said "4% in Year 1 and 4% in Year 2", they're still gonna say you're getting 8%.

I don't see how public sentiment effects this. We are not on strike. We have not gone on strike in a while. Our members vote through the deals. Members get emails on the deal structure and advice from the Unions on how to vote. Until that changes, the general public have little to no effect imo.

bren2001 · 11-01-2024 3:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602084#Comment_121602084

Good input. I think we all understand compound interest. I dont think anybody cares.

If you want to get technical, we'd never get 4% in year 1 in one go, it would be split as 2% and 2% or 1.5% and 2.5%. A fairer headline would be to compound all of that. Again, who cares?

Francis McM · 11-01-2024 3:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602000#Comment_121602000

Great, become a contractor like Tubs so. Nobody stopping you. Just remember you will lose your security, your pension (worth over a million, not to be sneezed at ), your long coffee breaks, generous holidays and sickies etc. Hope you do not end up like poor Tubrity and lose over 80% of your income some time.

Now answer the question. Do you think if the government gives pay rises it should be paid by

(a) cuts in services

(b) extra government borrowing, to be repaid plus interest by our grandkids

(c) extra taxation - how exactly?

jaffa20 · 11-01-2024 3:47pm

So, what happens next? They make them sweat with the threat of strike and a few extra % will be accepted eventually. See you all in a few weeks!

Gusser09 · 11-01-2024 3:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602141#Comment_121602141

Increments are standard across both the private and public sector as are pay scales.

bren2001 · 11-01-2024 3:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602141#Comment_121602141

Private sector employs can negotiate their yearly increments. I cannot.

Increments are not relevant to this discussion.

dylanyahoo · 11-01-2024 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602141#Comment_121602141

Increments are tied to performance appraisal. That's a requirement of the Haddington Road agreement.

bren2001 · 11-01-2024 3:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121602190#Comment_121602190

I think people not getting the increment is pretty rare. You'd want to be really not doing your job to not get the increment. Its as close to guaranteed as you will get in life.