Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

One wonders why nothing has been done on these measures over the last 5 to 10 years while every measure implemented drove up prices and rents.

Government who list housing and inflation as there top priorities can't be taken seriously

Thats a large part of it. But they're going to suffer for it at election time. 69% of Irish people apparently back SF's goal of reducing the average Dublin house price to €300k, including 63% of people who agree with it even if it means a decline in the value of their own property [1]. Those are huge majorities for what on the face of it is a very radical, extreme policy - deliberately aiming for a 20%+ drop in house prices is not normally a vote winning policy.

The problem FF & FG seem have to overlooked is that incredibly high rental and housing prices don't just screw renters (ie young people whos votes they don't care too much about), they're screwing hundreds of thousands of older middle class home owners who have their 20something and 30something children now living with them too - and those older people are core FF/FG voters. And lots of the 'young' renters are now entering their late 30s and 40s, when they would traditionally have become home owners and FG/FF voters, but thats no longer happening.

The goal of restoring house prices somewhat from the depths of the market was probably sound politically for the 2011-2016 government, but from 2016 onwards, ie the duration of our current and last government, aiming for continual house price inflation has been very very bad policy. Damaging for the country, damaging for the people, and even damaging to FF and FG themselves.

[1]https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/poll-public-backs-mary-lou-mcdonalds-call-for-300000-average-house-price-in-dublin/a1386646140.html

How many hoses would have being build if construction costs were/are not covered. there was little or no building in 2013/14 as the price a builder woild get for a house would not cover the cost. You could buy apartments in Limerick for less than 50K could you build apartments for 50k/unit even single bedroom ones ?

A daughter of a lad I know was renting in Dublin he visited her in 2014 and a house accross the street was for sale for 160K he wanted her to get a mortgage and he give here the balance to buy it. She did not the house increased by 100k in 18-24 months and was probably still below cost of construction

For many private LLs the question is no longer profitability, it is all about avoiding potentially ruinous liabilities. The way gov't has used tenant-related legislation to force all the problems onto private actors has finally come home to roost.

If the taxpayer never bailed out Anglo, would that bank have gone under also. They were on the list of high risk back in March also

Wasn't it worth it taxpayers!

Dunno the legal background but docking any sort of benefits in Ireland is basically a no-no. Even court-awarded fines are usually unpaid.

Madness

German property rights are not “restrictive”

social housing and housing benefits are far less abundant than in Ireland.

David McWilliams: Ireland will not have any political peace until we fix housing

Unfortunately a subscriber article only but glad the absolute urgency of the housing crisis is being called out by a newspaper that normally panders to NIMBYs and the vested interests of those that want property prices to always rise even if it is to the detriment of society as a whole...

This is a societal choice, it's up to society to fix it

Mentioned here in the past, first time I recall seeing it described in a mainstream paper

Describes the effect HAP has in pushing rents up - a floor on rents essentially

Nonsense strawman argument - the demand for those houses proves that people are not turning up their nose at them.

Last I checked, there arent a glut of 30s/40s/50s ex council houses sitting around on the market struggling to be sold. People will happily take them, there just isn't the supply.

Also average household size is shrinking so 2&3 beds are more in demand now than tiger years as families are smaller. Majority can only dream of having 3+ kids, cost would bankrupt them.

The analysis shows that the Dublin market lacks depth in affordability, in that the lowest quality submarkets present greater affordability issues than the top end. A considerable element of this is due to government rental supports, like Hap, at the low end and a narrow pool of renters who can afford the top end.

All this means that lower-priced apartments in Dublin are proportionally more expensive than in other markets, and there is little by way of cheaper rental supply anywhere in the city. Hap has played a major role in making some of the weakest submarkets of the city, the least affordable. A debate on the role Hap has played in driving up rents is long overdue.

I've been making that point on here for the year or two I've put any pass on, and posted in, this forum. Do away with HAP (and similar) in the morning and there would be no need for rent caps.

The likes of HAP are merely a subsidy towards those in society are already relatively wealthy. It increases the rental levels above where a free market would be. Which increases income for landlords, which increases the price of houses, which also increases the price of land, which feeds back into even more increase in the price of houses.Which the State then outbids private individuals for in order to house those that are priced out of the market.

Those who don't work will be looked after. Those that do work will have to be subsidised. Those that work in jobs such as construction won't be able to afford the houses they build - if you want to buy a house then you better be chasing the 100k+ jobs. It doesn't have to be that way, but that is the way it has been set up.