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Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Wolfskuil


    If you'd prefer the 19/20 chance etc, then you should join the Gardaí. Word on the street is that overestimating the value of pot is a key skill for the organisation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    If the government decides to spend billions extra per year going forward, it most certainly is our business or should be of concern to us. We currently have one of the highest debts per head in the world.

    You still have not answered the question:  if you are looking for a pay increase / wage increases, will these come from

    (a) cuts in services

    (b) increasing national debt further, to be repaid plus interest by our grandchildren

    (c) new taxes - how?


    N.B. You claim the government is already engaging in a "massive payout for loads of stakeholders". I assume you mean the stake holders include those in the public service. As the Irish Times reported, according to the pension experts, A Garda retiring at 60 with a €102,000 lump sum and €34,000 pension would have their pot valued at €1.8 million, including the spouse’s benefit.

    So you are right, the government is already engaging in a "massive payout" for loads of public servants.

    As someone asked on the radio recently, should not everyone else in the state be able to retire after 30 years work with a pension pot worth 1.8 million too?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭howiya


    If that's the government's position I'm sure they raised it during the talks. If they didn't they must have a different position.

    On your second point, which of your a,b,c options occurred during the Building Momentum deal which just expired? I'll let you figure it out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 169 ✭✭Risoc


    This is a thread about levels of public pay.

    The source of the funds will be any combination of a, b and c. It's a government decision which you could maybe argue about in a public finance thread or Budget 2024 thread somewhere else on Boards.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,595 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Income tax records were up over 7% in 2023 as reported by the government themselves.


    That reflects a large average income rise in the economy in addition to an increased capacity for the government to fund public sector pay increases.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    The 7% has nothing to do with it as parts of the economy were recovering after the covid years etc.

    There are more people in the private sector employed than ever before. In a year when income tax receipts go down do you expect public sector wages and pensions to go down? How many of the 1.8 million people in the private sector can retire after only 30 years with a pension pot worth 1.8 million?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,251 ✭✭✭Grueller


    Thats starting at age 40 so only 25 years contributions. Public servants typically start in their early 20s so would be much cheaper than that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    You still have not answered the question: if you are looking for a pay increase / wage increases, will these come from

    (a) cuts in services

    (b) increasing national debt further, to be repaid plus interest by our grandchildren

    (c) new taxes - how?

    I do not care. I am not a politician, member of a political party, nor do I aspire to.

    It is not my function to budget for a country.

    I could not care less who is the government or what they do, why do you keep asking me this?


    My employer is able to afford certain sectors hefty increases. If they are able to give away all that money then I am asking for my fair share.


    You DID however throw out a pension payment comment about a Public sector worker getting a "Massive" €20k pension. Is that pension inclusive of the Old Age Pension which everyone gets, or not?

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Registered Users Posts: 848 ✭✭✭Norrie Rugger Head


    Pretty much. Why would we care what our employer does to take in money? We have zero impact on that

    ⛥ ̸̱̼̞͛̀̓̈́͘#C̶̼̭͕̎̿͝R̶̦̮̜̃̓͌O̶̬͙̓͝W̸̜̥͈̐̾͐Ṋ̵̲͔̫̽̎̚͠ͅT̸͓͒͐H̵͔͠È̶̖̳̘͍͓̂W̴̢̋̈͒͛̋I̶͕͑͠T̵̻͈̜͂̇Č̵̤̟̑̾̂̽H̸̰̺̏̓ ̴̜̗̝̱̹͛́̊̒͝⛥



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,089 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I thought this thread was about Pay Talks and not Pensions??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,683 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Why do you think the average private sector pension pot is 107K and where did you get that figure in the first instance as a matter of interest?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭bren2001


    The original post said 30 years of service so I should have done 30-60. That change actually significantly increases the monthly contributions via the pension authority calculator.

    I’m not sure the calculator is necessarily great and assume 0% growth of the fund (does it?) but the original poster was saying to get an equivalent pension in the private sector was something like 150e a month when you consider employer contributions etc. That seems wildly wildly off.

    The person he’s replying too clearly just winding people up tho ignoring the state pension when calculating the 1.8 million pot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 528 ✭✭✭WhatsGoingOn2




  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,071 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    So no news on a deal today? Or will it be straight to a ballot next week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭howiya


    Talks on a new public sector pay agreement are likely to resume early next week per an article in the Irish Times



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭caviardreams


    What happened about the strike ballot wording meeting planned for yday?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭amacca




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,080 ✭✭✭amacca


    I agree, the standard of journalism in this country is shockingly poor...pick any half gobshite off the street and ask them to write that and fact check it and they should come up with sn accurate article


    It's either they are complete gibbering drooling idiots or its deliberate to provoke outrage/get clicks etc


    I think its the latter and its the lowest form of scumbaggery in that occupation imo...sowing division with lies/misdirection and mistruths fir a couple of grubby clicks...


    I used to think it was probably expertise was draining out of it now I think its integrity....they are more than ever incentivised to lie ...


    There was a time when the readership in the main wanted accuracy and that was on the whole the best way to go about it...now it's provoke a reaction, sow division etc



  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭joe1979


    RTE news : Govt could show 'flexibility' over public sector pay


    http://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2024/0112/1426256-public-sector-pay-talks/



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    A few posters on here thought the 8.5 would be the only offer. Naive thinking.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,466 ✭✭✭✭noodler




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,466 ✭✭✭✭noodler


    If someone wants a pension of 30k (on top of the12k State), Zurich's calculator says you need to put in 1,700 a month.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭bailey99


    There's one simple thing to remember here. The government in the budget decided without any negotiations to give unemployed people a €12 a week increase. That's about 5.5% increase on 1st January 2024.

    After negotiating with Unions and their first offer to public servants was immediately rejected, the government made a second offer. This was a €5 a week increase to the lowest paid public servants. The lowest paid. So I people who do the worst jobs in the public sector are Worth half what the deadbeat scrotes on the dole are worth. When businesses are crying out for staff and these people refuse to work. The government gives them €12 a week tax free and they offer an "improved" €5 a week subject to tax to the lowest paid people they themselves employee.


    And Paschal Donoghue has the cheek and the audacity to tell Unions that they need to consider the significant" offer made by government. Jesus, I'd love a FG election candidate to call to my door.


    Now, what does that tell you about about respect the government has for their own workers?! The Unions need to ballot ASAP and strike at the earliest opportunity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,959 ✭✭✭bren2001


    If you claim the dole you’re a “deadbeat scrote”? Jesus….

    You can take issue with one cohort being given a higher percentage than others without insulting them. Plenty (and in my opinion the vast majority) rely on social welfare because they have too, not because they’re “deadbeat scrotes”. They’re also not the enemy, they’re people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,755 ✭✭✭lbunnae


    Its funny how people thing knackers take up this mad % of social welfare. It simply isn’t true. We are also near full employment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Rothmans


    But it's not 30k on top of 14.5k State pension. It's 30 INCLUSIVE of the State pension, as has been pointed out ad nauseum.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭bailey99


    The 120k People claiming unemployment benefit don't want to work. There was 150k people at the height of the celtic tiger who refused to work.


    And instead of the dole being cut and motivate these people, it's increased constantly. That money should be redirected to carers who do phenomenal work and are totally undervalued. To the disabled, deaf and people with physical and mental disabilities.


    The issue is you have the likes of VDP etc al pleading that the unemployed need increased dole payments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,255 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Public sector wages are not being paid by debt so all of this waffle is totally irrelevant.

    Govenment is running a very large surplus in fact...

    How is it fair to give someone who never worked in their life €12 a week tax free, but offer a clerical officer €5 a week before tax and deductions?

    Not that I expect an answer

    Scrap the cap!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭bailey99


    Does that mean we should continue to pay €232 a week to 120,000 people and give them Christmas bonuses??? That costs the tax payers of this country €1.45 billion.


    I'd sooner give the lowest paid public servants a Christmas bonus instead.



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