Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 1:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609489#Comment_121609489

Less than 1% but takes up 50% of peoples attention when talking about public finances.

blackcard · 13-01-2024 1:32am

I am someone who has worked half their life in the public sector and half in the private sector. Took a large cut in my salary to work in the public sector but worked less hours so reckon it was worth it. No bonuses in public sector compared to 2 weeks pay in private sector. Worked with wasters in both sectors, probably more in public sector. When working in private sector, I used to crib about paying public sector wages. In public sector, cribs about paying wages of unemployed and pensions of private sector OAP through taxes of those who have not contributed 1 cent to a pension scheme whereas my pension contributions have been deducted regardless.

At the moment, you will struggle to get engineers, technicians, crafstpersons, IT technicians, planners, architects, electricians, plumbers, carpenters, etc. to work in the public sector as wages in the private sector are far higher. When the next burst comes, this will change but there will be an embargo on encruitment then. At the higher level, Wages in the public sector for administrative staff would be lower than those in multi-nations and larger companies whilst they would be higher than those working in your smaller private sector companies. Having sat on interview boards boards for administrative staff recently, you get what you pay for.

bren2001 · 13-01-2024 1:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609493#Comment_121609493

It’s not even relevant to the public pay talks….

No matter what you do, people will cheat the system. It’s a drop in the ocean.

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 9:32am

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/2024/01/13/can-the-comfortable-classes-in-the-public-sector-make-the-case-for-a-better-pay-deal/. I am not subscribed but the headline probably tells me all I need to know about the piece.

weisses · 13-01-2024 9:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609195#Comment_121609195

Where are you pulling that 32k number from ?

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 10:03am

CSO. It isn’t relevant to this thread.

weisses · 13-01-2024 10:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609791#Comment_121609791

According to the CSO Dec 23 statistic, long term ( >1 year) unemployed are 62k .. up 1% from Last year .... you brought up the statistic, harped on about it and now are saying what you said was irrelevant.

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 10:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609850#Comment_121609850

No it’s 32k.

Norrie Rugger Head · 13-01-2024 10:48am

I really don't care. They've publicly accepted that cost of living increases need addressing through social and min wage increased, then insult their employees

Peter Flynt · 13-01-2024 11:02am

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/siptu-warns-public-service-industrial-action-inevitable-if-deal-is-not-struck/a1828749638.html

"Of the 7.5pc pay rises proposed by Mr Donohoe’s department, 1.5pc would be paid in March this year and 2pc in October. Next year, under the department’s proposal, there would be further pay rises of 1pc and 1.5pc. There would also be 1.5pc on February 1, 2026."

The above is quoted by the Independent today. By breaking up the increases into into five increases over 26 months to February 2026 (with it being assumed that the increases next year come in March 2025 and October 2025) it ends up being the case that public servants will only receive 3.55% more over this 26 months than if they had received no increases at all.

The simple fact is that FF/FG don't want to pay for public servants. They see them as lower than those on welfare who are capable of finding work but choose not to. So much for looking after those who get up at seven in the morning.

Peter Flynt · 13-01-2024 11:13am

"However, a spokesperson (from the DPER) pointed out that public servants did not just benefit from pay rises......The spokesperson added that it is important to note these benefits should be viewed in the context of substantial cost-of-living measures. These include energy credits and tax cuts in both Budget 2023 and 2024."

This is just f**king mad stuff from the DPER. Who, in the private sector, goes into the office of their boss to seek a pay rise and has recent budgetary measures quoted back to them? Are public servants supposed to be grateful for having their own money returned to them?

Who in other sectors of the economy have heard: "Congratulations you got the job. We'd like to offer you €X per year PLUS extra budgetary measures announced by the government".

Also this DPER spokesperson is crossing the line between being politically neutral and politically supporting FF/FG. These people are so unprofessional they don't even know what their own jobs require of them.

weisses · 13-01-2024 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609871#Comment_121609871

The number of persons on the Live Register for one year or more in December 2023 was 62,295 - up 629 (+1.0%) from a year earlier

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-lr/liveregisterdecember2023/

Long term is considered 1 year or more

Peter Flynt · 13-01-2024 11:17am

FF/FG are also negotiating on behalf of the government for a period of time beyond their electoral mandate. The unions should cancel all talks and concentrate on 2024 deal - a one year deal - and then return to the negotiating table under a new government.

I'm not stating that the situation would necessarily be better under a new government but it couldn't be any worse under the likes of FF/FG.

skidmarkoner · 13-01-2024 11:52am

We should be refusing to work with DPER all departments should work to rule and ignore any means of communication from the Department who doesn't value staff across the public sector.

At the end of the day a strike that affects the people will just turn the public against us but an internal strike against the main government body that negotiates pay well that'll mess them up internally and force the hand to actually offer something substantial.

Peter Flynt · 13-01-2024 12:08pm

This appears to be the financial offer:

"It is understood the government offer meant:

1.5pc or a minimum of €750 from March 1 this year
2pc from October 1 this year
1pc on March 1 next year
1.5pc or a minimum of €750 on August 1 2025
1.5pc on February 1, 2026
plus 1pc paid in a “local bargaining” clause to deal with other claims."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/full-details-of-rejected-29bn-pay-offer-for-385000-public-servants-revealed-as-unions-prepare-wording-of-strike-ballot/a779607959.html

Leaving aside the 1% "local bargaining" as that is vague and will not necessarily be received by all public sector workers this deal appears to work out as follows:

An overall 1.75% increase in wage for 2024 (due to the splitting up of the increases). On 1st January 2025 salaries will be 3.5% higher than on 1st January 2024.

An overall 3.2% increase in wage for 2025 relative to the amount earned in 2024. This exceeds the summation of the two offers of 1pc and 1.5pc in 2025 because the 1pc and 1.5pc increases are increases on the increased wage from 2024 and on the increased wage in March 2025.

A further 1.5% increase on 1st February 2026 bringing salaries to 7.7% higher than they were 26 months earlier on January 1st 2024.

Overall over the 26 months public sector workers will have received a cumulative total of 3.67% more than if there had been no deal at all with no increases.

Ezeoul · 13-01-2024 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609945#Comment_121609945

Not to mention that not all public servants benefitted to the same extent from the budget measures.

Gusser09 · 13-01-2024 12:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121608959#Comment_121608959

Thats the point though. It extremely emotive and for good reason. Working people in both the private and public sector are struggling to make a living. All the while we have the welfare class getting prioritised for housing, getting propped up for energy upgrades. I know of countless situations where people claiming the welfare have been handed 3 and 4 bed A rated new builds worth 400 and 500 thousand.

We have a govt. arguing about a pay increase, most of which will be taken back in paye,prsi,usc etc. Its bananas.

The figure is a lot more than 32k. Thats the manipulated figure.

bren2001 · 13-01-2024 12:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609949#Comment_121609949

The LR isn’t a measure of unemployment. Stop with your bollocks.

if you want to educate yourself on the differences, read this from the Danish equivalent of the CSO:

https://www.dst.dk/Site/Dst/SingleFiles/GetArchiveFile.aspx?fi=3362953407&fo=0&ext=formid

Its sfa to do with the public pay talks.

readoutloud · 13-01-2024 12:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609734#Comment_121609734

The article is more balanced than the headline makes it sound. Taylor notes the strength of the union's position and believes a better offer, which is in everyone's interest, is in the making:

"Against this backdrop, you would have to reckon that a lot that went on this week was performative, on both sides, part of the dance that seems to precede any agreement. With the Government offering 8.5 per cent over 2½ years and the unions seeking 12.5 per cent, there is a deal to be done around 10 per cent. That would seem roughly in line with deals in big private sector companies that seem to be coming in around 3.75 per cent to 4 per cent for this year."

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 12:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610098#Comment_121610098

It’s a Low figure. It’s a fart in the wind with regard to public finances and not relevant to this thread.

Gusser09 · 13-01-2024 12:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610113#Comment_121610113

Its relevant more than you think.

Hotblack Desiato · 13-01-2024 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121609398#Comment_121609398

Possibly accounted for by those signing on long term on a part week basis. Not entirely comfortable with that as it's using taxpayer money to subsidise crap employers.

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 12:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610117#Comment_121610117

To people who don’t see the bigger picture and think there is millions of “scrotes” going around not working. It’s simply not true. I’ll leave it there anyway with any comments on the unemployed, I hate punching down.

Francis McM · 13-01-2024 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121585914#Comment_121585914

+1. My cousin tells me stories as well of how only an hour or two a day was worked in her public sector office, and one person who came from the private sector was actually told to slow down and keep her mouth shut to others on the lack of productivity. One lady actually was an avid knitter and spends between a third and half her time knitting. I am sure not all the public service is like that though.

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 12:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610104#Comment_121610104

Thanks for that. 10 would be my guess, it’s just under the half way mark between the two offers as well, 10 would have large scale acceptance. I’m not an economist though and fair enough the 2024 inflation prediction but god knows about 2025/2026.

Gusser09 · 13-01-2024 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610124#Comment_121610124

Did ye hear the story about the lad who was sent down to the basement in the customs house for 10 years? They forgot about him until he was retiring.

Lol.

lbunnae · 13-01-2024 12:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610124#Comment_121610124

I have been told to slow down working in the private sector. Happens everywhere, building sites is a popular one. Pointless anecdote on a public sector pay thread.

Gusser09 · 13-01-2024 12:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610140#Comment_121610140

For once we agree.

Hotblack Desiato · 13-01-2024 12:44pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610104#Comment_121610104

That last sentence completely fails to address how badly we fell behind the rising cost of living over the last deal. A loss of at least 6.5% which needs to be addressed up front in any new deal.

KaneToad · 13-01-2024 12:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121610140#Comment_121610140

I worked for one of the "pillar" banks as a college graduate. There were 7 people in my section. Two of them did the bare minimum and just stayed under the radar, two of them took on every task with vigour (I was one of those due to naivety), the other three seemed to compete with eachother for being of any use; extra long lunch breaks, maximizing sick leave, ignoring tasks, deliberately misinterpreting tasks, making a balls of tasks to ensure they weren't asked again.

I now realise that the problem wasn't the employee - it was the structures. People's stages of life, personal ambitions were not considered. Those chasing promotion - and there were plenty of them- never tackled structural issues. They focussed on glamorous easy wins.

Human nature is human nature. The workplace being public or private is less a factor.

Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Comments

The number of persons on the Live Register for one year or more in December 2023 was 62,295 - up 629 (+1.0%) from a year earlier