General Irish politics discussion thread

Not the ones I know of. They've only started moving away now.

These people felt the last two governments weren't Real FG due to coalition / Independent Alliance; and are only now willing to take up the idea that FG aren't the right wing farmer party.

While I doubt the same view is national, I'd say it's common anywhere with good farmland and an old FG vote

The problem is there's no main steam party in Ireland who would want them in a coalition.

There's a massive difference between need votes for one of issues versuses allowing them dictate policy decisions and having a input on a programme for government. The other question is, would the farmers Alliance go into government with other main stream parties given they disagree with them on nearly every major issue?

Until the FA show that have any clue about what they are doing no major party will go near them.

Do you think Independent Alliance had no input on government policy decisions or the programme for government in 2016?

73% of Irish people think we need to reduce immigration now according to the latest polls, and 23% say its their #1 election issue.

If the Farmers Alliance have 4-7 TDs and are given the option of Minister for Integration its probably a safe bet that 1) they'd take it, given changing policy in that area is their main reason for existing and 2) it wouldn't be particularly toxic to the other mainstream parties, given the FA would be implementing the will of the vast majority of voters.

The Greens arguably represent a more 'extreme' ideological preference in regards to being out of sync with the wishes of our voting public and have had no problem being accepted into government as a junior coalition party.

They did. Where the Healy raes in they alliance?

Why would any of the major parties give the Integration portfolio to a group who know nothing about the laws and rules around immigration and who have proposed a system that is the complete opposite to all the major party? For the laugh? If the FA were implementing the will of the vast majority of voters they'd get alot more than 4-7 TDs. If the vast majority of voters want thet system why haven't any of the othe political parties changed to an anti immigration and anti EU position then? Also the main reason for their existence is farming issues. Hence the party name.

I don't think accepting climate change exists, is real and is a significant problem is an "extreme ideological preference" tbh.

I agree, Sinn Fein could also cancel BusConnects and the Metro, and blame the Farmers Alliance.

No, but the IA had people like Michael Fitzmaurice who were very much rural conservatives. And the Healy-Raes have propped up other governments.

Why would any of the major parties give the Environmental portfolio to a group who know nothing about the laws and rules of the state and have proposed a system that will raise living costs and reduce the quality of life of everyone in the country? For the laugh? Because thats what they've repeatedly done with the Green party.

The Irish political system has shown our mainstream parties are more than happy to give ministerial positions to minority, single issue, parties over the years. They provide votes for propping up the government, but more importantly also serve as useful public opinion mudguards for the bigger parties. Theres absolutely no reason to suspect the FA won't follow in the well trod foodsteps of the PDs, Labour, IA and the Greens.

The polls are extremely clear on what the views of the majority of Irish voters are on our immigration situation. Are you living under a rock? Our current political parties aren't reflecting the views of the electorate on this for multiple reasons - hubris (all of them), international pressure (all of them), business leaders and housing providers wanting more immigrants (FF/FG), left-wing pro-migration party members (SF/Greens) etc.

This exact scenario has played out in multiple European countries over the last 30 years, Ireland is just 10 or so years behind. Look at the AfD in Germany, Le Pen in France, Meloni in Italy, Geert Wilders in NL etc. The mainstream political parties ignore/gaslight the immigration issue ("Anyone possibly questioning this must be racist") for years, public opinion reaches a boiling point, and the far-right rises because they actually address public feelings on the topic. Theres no reason whatsoever to suspect Ireland will differ from this trajectory based on whats happened so far, we've followed it like a road map.

Some of the Greens reactionary actions in the 07-11 government still haunt us. Diesel cars and wood burning stoves for all, actively killing asthmatics for dubious even then, now proven to be no carbon benefits

I can't vote for a party that actively contributed to something that may actually kill me in the short term.

I think we are all on a learning curve in relation to environment and climate issues. So I wouldn't be pointing the finger at the Greens on their support for diesel cars, at the time. Hindsight is the exact science. A whole lot of us are still in denial, that it's an issue at all. FA are tapping that vein as are the Healy Raes, Fitzmaurice, Collins and McGrath.

The party he was a founding member of, and policy maker in, went into government. They absolutely influenced government policy. The Healy-Raes were listened to and bought off by the respective governments in question, you're very very naive if you think they of all people lend their votes for nothing in return.

Right, so junior coalition parties actually in fact do not need to have the same views as the major parties to go into government. Good to see you've done a complete 180 on that.

The real world evidence from literally countless countries across Europe would disagree with you. Plenty of voters have proven willing to vote on immigration as a single issue vote, even for parties that advocate for other things they disagree with - because its that important to them. Le Pen got 42% of the vote in the last French presidential election, do you think 42% of French voters agreed with her wanting France to leave the EU, ignoring EU law and other international obligations? Do you think the one quarter of Germans supporting the AfD currently all agree with their heavily Eurosceptic and pro-Putin agenda?

23% of the electorate in Ireland say reducing migration is their number one election issue, and that figure is growing steadily over time. A large portion of them are likely to vote to reflect that. And the FA are the only party they can vote for to do so. If even one third do, and the FA get 7% of the vote in our next general election, theres a very real chance they'll be in a position to enter government as a junior coalition party as other parties who polled at similar levels frequently have in Ireland. As I said from the outset.

The independent alliance didn't have policies though. They were a collection of individuals and he left because he didn't agree with going into government. Again, I cant remember a time when a government needed the vote of the Healy Raes. It might have happened, but they certainly didn't do a complete 180 on their own policies to achieve it.

Thinking anout it in more detail, Labour and FG would have very similar positions on the EU, on immigration, and nearly every other core issue. I actually can't think of one big issue they would have the complete opposite view on tbh. I also can't remember a coalition party who jave had the complete opposite view on major policy that have gone into government and been given that Ministry. Can you?

I have no interest in what the rest of Europe are doing, I also find it no surprise that countries with a very very strong ring wing past have found themselves going back that direction. Irish people will vote for the person who cab solve their local issue, that's nearly always been the case. That won't change. The FA will need very strong local candidates with proven track records of doing that to get anywhere close to 7%.

As pointed out, they didn't. They said it is the biggest issue. Also, what we have seen from the protests is clear. Once it isn't on people's doorsteps they really don't give a ****. If the Government develop these new large reception centres then that will reduce a significant portion of that problem.

The 23% of the population saying immigration is their #1 issue are not saying it because they want more immigration, they're obviously saying it because they want less immigration in the context of the poll where they were also being asked if they wanted more or less, and 73% said less and only 3% more. To even imply the opposite is absolutely ridiculous.

The poll very clearly stated "all migration" also. In the most recent polling on only asylum seekers the figure was even higher, at 75% wanting it reduced, and that was from months ago - its very likely even higher now.

The IA negotiated before going into government, had multiple cabinet ministers, and very obviously influenced that government's policy. They didn't get nothing for their troubles. If you can't remember a time the Healy-Raes voted with the goverment thats on you - have a look at their voting record and you'll see plenty.

Labour and FG had very different policy platforms on a whole range of issues - welfare and taxation being the obvious, biggest two. The Greens and FF have pretty diametrically opposed views on climate change measures, yet the Greens were given the Environmental ministry in this very government.

"I have no interest in what the rest of Europe are doing" then you have no interest or knowledge of politics. Neither France nor Germany have a strong right-wing past, before the 2010s neither had significant right-wing political presence. And the same was true in most of the rest of Europe where the far-right has risen. The Irish electorate is not sui generis, it follows very similar patterns and trends to other European democracies.

If you think Irish people "don't give a ****" about our current immigration levels you have absolutely no contact with reality in 2024. Large majorities of people polled say its an issue, there were massive riots in Dublin over it, there are regular weekly protests breaking out at asylum seeker accomodation around the country, its coming up regularly at local political party meetings now for every party etc. Reducing immigration is up there with housing as the biggest thing voters in Ireland care about right now.

We could do with more workers in the construction area for example. The only mid term solution for that is foreign workers. We're are at full employment by any matrix. A migration policy should be balanced and such needs should be a core part of the plan and targetted.

The IA has no set policiy positions as a party. They were a group of individuals. You claimed Michael Fitzmaurice was a rural TD with a rural goal. That's why he wasn't in government, his mindset was to the goals of the government and of the IA . Shane Ross wasn't of that same mindset, hence the reason he was given a Cabinet position. I never claimed the Healy raes didn't vote with the government but its irrelevant. The government have no control over them. What I am saying is they didn't change government policy or provide the Healy Raes with anything to ensure their vote because they dont need their vote.

Maybe that's why Labour weren't given the Dept. Of Finance portfolio? I could see a FA getting the ministerial for agricultural portfolio a lot sooner than the integration one. The FF and Greens both agree climate change exists and is an issue that needs to be tackled. As I said, the FA are the only major party who have the complete opposite position on immigration.

I have plenty of knowledge. As for Germany not having a strong right-wing win past. I'd suggest a looking into your history a bit there. Focus on the 1930s and 1940s woukd be my suggestion.

Ireland have no interest in brekaing EU law EU and ignoring our international obligations. Hence the reason they have very little interest in voting for the only political party advocating that. A coupe of 100 hundred chavs looting footlocker doesn't change that and neither does a couple of hundred protesting either. You said yourself you'd give the FA about 4-7 seats, that's about the height of people's importance on the issue.

I seriously wonder whether the unvetted single male bit is a strawman and/or moral panic given that Ukrainian males are not actually allowed to leave Ukraine.