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Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    You made up my answer you mean.

    p.s. I am not here to be interrogated by you, if you try to deflect the conversation (which was about redress,) I will ignore it



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    Great news. We need more insight into how the wealthiest political party in Ireland managed to build up such a vast property portfolio and how they were funded. Time to shine a torch into murky corners.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Would have thought that if there was any thing untoward that Revenue would be on top of it. Of course Philip Ryan doesn't mention that this applies to all parties and we know which parties have heretofore been in most trouble with the existing regulations of SIPO and who suffer from forgetfulness and oversight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    and asked me was I asking something I wasnt asking about (the whole Adams waffle)



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Im sure the info is there in their books if anyone looked.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,580 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    I sure it is not. A lot of there fundraising is abroad and not recorded. As well UK rules(apply in NI) are different to SIPO in the Republic. Are SF holding property or bank accounts in one country controlled by the party in the other country and previously not needed to be declared in either country.

    As well it is know to raise substantial funds in the US, Canada and from other countries which it previously did not need to declare. It was even funded by Russia at one time.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Despite the Indo and Philip Ryan's sinister reporting here and the hope of the anti SF folk, this legislation is NOT just designed to tackle SF.

    It will apply to all political parties who we know are less than truthful when it comes to financial matters.

    Most Irish parties try to raise funds in the US, perfectly legally.

    If any of them are not properly declaring there should be appropriate sanctions, I have been calling for this for years on here. Give SIPO the proper powers that they have been asking for for years - who is denying them those powers? It ain't SF.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    It applies to all parties. No other party admitted to having 50+ properties though. That’s massive. They must be the wealthiest political party in all of Europe?

    Think FG own 3 properties and FF something similar. All purchased in the 80’s.

    Will be great to see more insight into SF funny money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    'admitted'? This is classic Indo language.

    They have as far as I know declared their property holdings. There is no secret who owns the building they run here.

    If they haven't there are appropriate sanctions already.

    If anyone is undeclaring to Revenue or SIPO (and we know there are multiples across all political party's who are less than truthful and extremely forgetful 😁) then action should be taken.

    We also know a blind eye is turned to these rule breakers by their party's...examples can be provided if you want them or are under-informed.

    I'm a long time advocate of proper regulation and sanctions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,876 ✭✭✭Bobson Dugnutt


    200 staff? Even on minimum wage that’s a couple of million a year. Where’s the money coming from?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    That's not a question that can be answered here.

    If there is anything untoward, there is long existing legislation/revenue rules etc to deal with it.

    Shouldn't the question be, if they are doing something illegal, why hasn't it been dealt with?.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,958 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    The Northern Ireland rules are different to the UK rules. Sinn Fein can be funded by Russia secretly if that is what they want.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Any party can, you mean.

    The exceptionalism is rank here.

    Philip Ryan's sinister article making it out that this is SF specific legislation is doing it's work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,958 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    What a complete load of gibberish.

    One claim that got kicked out? Three in a row and more to come.

    Innocent until proven guilty? The innocent person under attack is the journalist e.g. Malachi O'Doherty, the one trying to prove them guilty is doing the suing e.g. Gerry Kelly. Living in fear of losing your house for three years because Gerry Kelly sued you personally rather than the media organisation, we all know who is doing the persecuting, it is Sinn Fein and their SLAPPs cases.

    Finally, law and justice, I know a lot more about it than you. And Sinn Fein have a very casual approach to law and justice. Where is the justice for Mairia Cahill? Where is the justice for Paul Quinn? Where is the justice for the prison officer murdered by Gerry Kelly? Where is the justice for Austin Stack? Where is the justice for all the victims of the terrorists fully supported by Sinn Fein?

    I get sick when I see a Sinn Fein member mention justice.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I get sick when I see a Sinn Fein member mention justice.

    Of course you do.

    Because you ignore all the other injustices.


    Like deciding that 3 - nil is the 'score' (you keep score, eek!), when we all know that SF members have won more of these cases than they have lost.

    Your exceptionalism about the law seems odd too.

    You need to find some balance to be credible



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    So now you are accusing a political party in ireland of faking the books. Jaysus.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    no no - sure they've a load of buildings that no-one knows who owns them or where the money came from (going by the vibe on this thread)😅



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    awww - lets all feel sorry for blanch152. The truth cant be gibberish. The amount of whinging thats going on about SF - roll on the elections.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I wasn't aware of the work SF had been doing in the US since the election but it seems to have worked.

    Harry Goddard, managing partner of Deloitte Ireland, told the Business Post that Sinn Féin did a “good job” of calming down international investors by reaching out to them after surging to its best electoral result for a century at the last election in 2020.

    “The three topics the international community would say to me about Ireland is talent, housing and stable government policy,” Goddard told the Business Post.

    “Prior to Sinn Féin’s campaign last year, international investors were worried. But I think Sinn Féin did a good job of calming everybody down.”

    He said the party’s visits to the US in recent years – including McDonald’s trip to Silicon Valley in 2022 – had reassured overseas companies that its business policies would not be radical.

    “Fair play to Sinn Fein, they went out to the US, they engaged, said all the right things and provided a lot of confidence. They now need to follow through on that.”

    Perhaps the sensationalist claims of corporate flight might end now?





  • Registered Users Posts: 134 ✭✭acceletor




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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Not at all.

    SF want to hike personal tax rates in a way which would impact many MNC employees in Ireland.

    Employees whom can often move abroad to their companies other offices, should they face an exceptional tax burden in Ireland.

    It also makes Ireland less attractive as a destination for new recruits into the MNCs, because of the tax burden they would face here.

    In the longer term, this leads to lower levels of job creation in Ireland, as MNC employers find it harder to fill jobs here vs London, Lisbon etc, so they develop job growth outside of Ireland.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    A sector doesn't want to pay more tax - quelle suprise.

    The point was that the corporate flight sensationalised about because SF would mess with the corporate tax levels is no longer the scare story it was.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Their interference in personal tax will still result in flight of jobs from the MNCs.

    And will also reduce the pipeline of future MNC jobs in Ireland, which, ironically, will result in a lower tax take.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Can we see some data on this?

    Who has said they will 'leave'?

    I get people have said they don't want to pay higher tax, but many sectors have said this and when it came to it, paid the tax because they were still better off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Lots of those companies have international offices and employees can negotiate moves to other offices.

    Some roles will still be tied here, but others not.

    Making ourselves an outlier in the amount we tax employees is obviously not good for job maintenance or job creation.

    Different ball game with public sector roles as they have to be based in ireland, but many of the MNC roles have flexibility in where they are based, so its certainly not in our interest, short term, or long term, to develop a reputation as an ultra high tax employee economy.

    Remember these folks are already being taxed over 50% of the majority of their income as it is.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Not really data is it?

    Are countries with higher personal tax rates having difficulty attracting MNC roles?

    Countries such as

    Denmark

    Portugal

    Austria

    Belgium

    France

    Netherlands



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Whichever way you look at it, increasing income tax rates makes us less competitive in a globalised economy.

    And yes, high tax countries do struggle to retain mobile job roles, which is a large share of MNC employment.

    I know because I am one of those employees (could easily move from Ireland if i choose to do so) and I work with hundreds in the same position.



  • Registered Users Posts: 68,956 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    I'm sure some would move, but enough to damage the country? If it was that dangerous I think the guy from Deloitte might have mentioned it when he mentioned the 3 things considered when thinking of Ireland - talent, housing and stable government policy,” 



  • Registered Users Posts: 895 ✭✭✭Emblematic


    While I would not want to see MNCs leave en masse Ireland, should job creation be the priority at the present. I can see why it should be in times of high unemployment. Job creation is needed then so that people who are unemployed in the country can then be employed. But should job creation be the priority when we then need to bring someone in to fill that job? Additionally, should it be the priority when there's a severe housing shortage?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,529 ✭✭✭BlueSkyDreams


    Yes, it should.

    We should always be "Open for business" and halting job development would never be the right approach to take.

    Its not a tap we can just switch back on again, should we decide to turn it off.

    More home building, yes. Thats the priority.

    But in the meantime, we need to keep developing the economy and showing the MNCs that we are a viable and productive country in which to do business.



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