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Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    Munster are between a rock and a hard place. They have more pressing needs than using a NIQ on a back up fly half. They just need someone capable enough to come off the bench and start in some URC games. Also for Munster if Crowley was to pick up an injury you need someone who has been there and done that. Freddie Burns from an age profile fits for the short term. He has won at different stops in his career, he is at an age where starting week in week out isn't a guarantee to start.

    I can't see the IRFU intervening again and sending another potential international quality 10 (Harry Byrne) back to Munster when they already have Irelands current starting fly half. I can see them sending Harry to Ulster to strengthen them and give each province solidity at the starting 10.

    I could see Charlie Tector going down to Munster or Connacht.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    How does it work with the 'Tax Back' scheme if say a player from Dublin or Limerick moves to Belfast for a number of years. Also, as all players are contracted to the IRFU does this have any implications for players moving from one tax jurisdiction to another?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    I'd agree with this to a point; the problem is the relative lack of experience at 10 for Munster now. Someone experienced like Lealiifano when he signed for Ulster is exactly what Munster could do with for a season or 2 rather than Tector, say, but using an NIQ spot for that may not be what they (or the IRFU) want, when you consider the relative dearth/inexperience of options at 10 for Ireland.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It's an excellent question and I don't know the answer, nor whether it plays a role in players moving to Ulster.

    I can only assume the chances of you avoiding becoming tax resident in the UK if you play for Ulster are relatively slim even if you live in Ireland. So I doubt they have access to the tax back scheme which would be a rather large impact.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    I'm not sure HB will need to be "sent" anywhere. A lot will depend on what is going on behind the scenes in Leinster but if he gets the impression that he is going to fall to 3rd in the pecking order then he may just want to move.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    It has always been an exception yes, though to be fair RR is right that we don't really know about the inner workings of the IRFU. Personally, I'm fine with that.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I would see Tector going to Munster as Plan D or E for Munster. They will absolutely want an experienced player to back up Crowley. That is why Freddie Burns is an ideal fit for a season or 2. They get experience in a position of need and maintain the NIQ designation which they could use on a winger or hooker or loosehead prop.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I agree there is no guarantee that any of the Leinster out halves go anywhere. But, it is currently safe to say that when healthy Ross is the starter and that Prendergast is very highly thought of at Leinster and that sentiment is being matched with the Irish set up who are meant to be high on him for the next World cup cycle.

    That leaves Frawley, Harry and Tector as three players wondering about their future.

    Tector is more than likely surplus to requirement and will more than likely make a move to another province once his academy contract is up.

    That means Harry vs Frawley. Looking at Nienaber's history of using the 6-2 split, Frawley would be the obvious fit as he can play 10,12 and 15.

    Harry has an injury history, compared to Frawley, isn't as position versatile and out of the two would probably benefit the most from a move to another province like Ulster where the chance to nail down the 10 jersey might actually push him onto the level everyone thought he would get to a number of years ago.

    A move for Harry benefits not only Harry and Ulster but potentially Ireland as well if he fully realises his potential.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Ulster seems to be the place that sucks the talent out of excellent players. Over the years far too many promising players enter the academy and end up going nowhere. That is bound to be the event in some cases but nearly all of them? Every year? Guys that look top-notch in the U20s disappear without trace. Look at what happens to guys who move into development contracts or full contracts. It doesn't take long for them to start to tail off. We even have a situation where one of our top wingers gives up the game at 26. Stockdale would have his flaws ironed out if he was a Leinster player. Baloucoune looked fantastic for a good while and then the inevitable decline sets in. Others who are clearly capable of high levels of play seem to do it about 20% of the time. Some who are in this bracket also hardly ever get to play e.g. Harry Sheridan and others over the years. I'm sure most contributors on here look at Ulster and scratch their heads at how the team lurches from game to game, season to season, performances going up and down like an express lift.

    There are well known and widely discussed 'structural' problems which impact on professional rugby in N.I. society and also how massive changes in education, such as the emasculation of the private school system and the massive drain to universities in GB have reduced the opportunity for access to the game.

    If I was a player of the status of Deegan, Frawley or H.B. I wouldn't touch Ulster with a barge pole under the current regime. It has never been entirely up to scratch since about 2013. However, it's not just at the pro level that problems exist. I would love Deegan to be an Ulster player. He is a class act.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,033 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    I was actually thinking the same thing. I assume the Ulster players are paid in pounds and are taxed by the UK. If a player was getting paid the same at Ulster as they would at Leinster (factoring in the exchange rate) would they be taking home significantly more or less? And does it work with central contracts?



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  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    I think they changed the rules on this recently where if you retire anywhere in the EEA you can reclaim the tax, and it very explicitly includes the UK as a jurisdiction, so don't think there's any issues from a player retiring in Belfast for example.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I know this has nothing to do with Leinster or Irish rugby but Louis Rees-Zammit is quitting rugby and joining the NFL international player pathway in order to pursue his dream of playing in the NFL. What a hammer blow to Wales.... how terrible lol



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,188 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yeah, but their years playing for Ulster presumably won't count for the taxback, which I thought was more the issue.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    The maximum tax rate after allowances is 40% in the U.K. Where players will benefit is with housing costs. Housing cost in Dublin is wildly out of control compared to Belfast and the surrounding areas.



  • Posts: 0 Lia Sweet Racist


    Absolutely crazy move! Did not see this coming at all!

    I guess it makes sense though to some degree - I think practice squad players in the NFL - the level at which International Pathway Players are initially bracketed, still earn c. $400k or so a year, with obvious enormous upside if you can make it at a higher level then.

    Christian Wade famously didn't make the grade, but Jordan Mailata, an offensive tackle for the Eagles from Australia (6ft 8ins, 166kgs) is a really good example of a huge success from the International Player Pathway programme.



  • Registered Users Posts: 568 ✭✭✭jonok28


    I hope he gets on well and never wears the red of Wales again lol

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'd question the union. I agree with you in respect to players tumbling around in mediocrity and no fix is found. What's to stop the union from sending an international coach into the ulster ser up to help? O'Connell or Easterby for a few weeks could benifit Ulster.

    I reckon Deegan would do great with Ulster. He's quality and is in his prime years. Harry would also, what to do with Flannery, if Harry did move? Flannery is on a 3 year deal.

    If I'm Leo, I keep Tector. I was one of the few that thought he was really good at u20 level. He could also be an option in center.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    The issue here is Ruddock is 33 and soon to be 34. Signing him to a region would be stupid, imo. He's not going to be capped as he's obviously slowing down. I hope Rhys retires and gets into coaching.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    After watching the Stade match there's still lots of work on. I'd be wary of the Tigers this week. Stade were poor! Leinster weren't exactly very good either. It's a long process with the coaching changes and the world cup hangover.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭ersatz


    I have literally been scratching my head for years wondering how Ulster manage to remain steadfastly mediocre given some of the players they have and the popularity of the game in the wee province. Yes there are obstacles given some of the cultural challenges they have but that’s no worse than it was in the past when Ulster rugby was a force. I’m assuming Humphries has a bead on it and will prioritise it and I also guess the problems run deeper than just shifting in a better coaching team.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Our l/o was a disaster in the 1st half. Ryan came on and made a big difference. Why Molony didn't start is strange. Vastly better line out operator than Big J and Jenkins.



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,484 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,559 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    He could easily play for another 3-4 years. He has played second row before for Leinster when required and could move into that position in Wales for a region.

    Heard that Baird was calling the lineout, first time and it didn't go well. I though Jenkins would be the one calling lineouts so strange he wasn't.

    I expect Molony and Ryan starting next week

    To give an idea, in second half McGrath came on, maybe this wasn't on TV, but it was a lineout. Larmour was standing out in defence, McGrath was roaring at him. Larmour was looking at him bemused. McGrath wanted him to join the lineout. In the end he came over and joined the lineout but from what I could see Larmour was in the right spot and McGrath was wrong.

    But that sort of confusion was in the team and wil take time to work out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Should be a tough outing v Leicester. Leicester could not be as bad this time around. A win and we should make the top 4. Hoping to avoid La Rochelle in the round of 16.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,605 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Watching Bordeaux, I realized that Noel Mc has not much to work with! Lol



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,696 ✭✭✭arsebiscuits1


    Eh I wouldn't say you're one of the few that thought Tector was really good at u20 level. I haven't spoken to anyone who doesn't or didn't think he was any good...

    He was well rated and rightly lauded for his hand in winning the grand slam. Making some really tough clutch kicks.

    Tectors issue is and quite possibly always will be the fact that he will likely always be compared to his peers at the same/similar age grade ie. Sam Prendergast which is where most people are suggesting that if we were to lose a play he can be considered the odd man out. Not because he's not rated, but because he's not rated as high as Prendergast.

    If you were to take Prendergast out of the scenario then Tector would be getting much higher plaudits (and game time) but unfortunately he's coming into a pro environment where there are already 3/4 pros in his position of note who a) damn good players in their own right and b) have a very good age profile



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 15,978 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Indeed - But in looking at the various computations it looks like it's near impossible to avoid them in the QF's.

    From what I can see , if LAR qualify by beating Sale the only way Leinster avoid them in the QF would be for Stade to beat the Stormers in Paris, which is unlikely given how poor Stade have been thus far.



  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭Clontarf_Jazz




  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    If LAR beat Sale, they'll be third seeds unless Leicester beat Leinster.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    George Martin ruled out for Leicester, he's a massive loss for them.



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