Leinster Team Talk Thread (Love you Furlong time)

So if Ruddock defects to Wales that's the end of his Leinster career as he becomes an NIQ player ?

I agree with your general point but i don’t think the irfu would let them sign an NIQ 12 with him there. They generally frown on too many in a row in same position.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Claiming to 'understand' why Leinster fans would be aggrieved but then going on and on about why they shouldn't be - that the players 'don't have an appreciable impact', that they aren't 'crucial' despite multiple posters providing you detailed reasons why they absolutely are.

I dont see the same energy by you in the Munster thread when posters are aggrieved about moves.

Leinster due to the significant quality of the academy system and them constantly churning out talent at a rate of knots is bound each year to lose a percentage of that talent to the other provinces and abroad.

The difference is, Leinster, apart from some notable instances e.g. Joey Carbery, Roman Salanoa, Sam Ilo and Jack Aungier (Really only Carbery and Salanoa), have been able to keep the players they want to keep. Joey was moved because Leinster had identified him as Kearney's heir at 15 with Ross being their 10 of the future. The IRFU didn't agree with that as Joey had proven himself more than capable at playing 10 at an international level and a move to Munster in order to help him progress at the position was the logical next step.

With Salanoa, Leinster already had Furlong and Porter at the TH position so in the IRFU's mind, game time was going to be hard to come by.

Leinster will lose a fly half in the next 12 to 18 months. My guess due to his previous injury history and somewhat lack of position versatility as well as a glut of options at the position, the odd man out will be Harry Byrne.

Leinster clearly love that Frawley can play 10,12 and 15 at a relatively high level and if Nienaber wants to continue with a 6-2 split, having a fly half capable of covering multiple positions will be of vital importance. Plus Leinster already have Ross to start now and Sam Prendergast marked as Sexton's heir.

With Jack Crowley at Munster, Ross Byrne at Leinster and Jack Carty at Connacht all established as nailed on starters when healthy, Ulster is the only province who have a bit of uncertainty at the position. Harry going to Ulster would be a good move for him and Ulster.

I can see Munster bringing in a more experienced Irish qualified fly half in order to push Jack Crowley and to provide quality depth. I can see them target Freddie Burns or AJ McGinty. They will try and use a NIQ designation on a winger or a front row player.

I could also see Charlie Tector going to Connacht to add to the talent pool at fly half in Galway.

Munster are between a rock and a hard place. They have more pressing needs than using a NIQ on a back up fly half. They just need someone capable enough to come off the bench and start in some URC games. Also for Munster if Crowley was to pick up an injury you need someone who has been there and done that. Freddie Burns from an age profile fits for the short term. He has won at different stops in his career, he is at an age where starting week in week out isn't a guarantee to start.

I can't see the IRFU intervening again and sending another potential international quality 10 (Harry Byrne) back to Munster when they already have Irelands current starting fly half. I can see them sending Harry to Ulster to strengthen them and give each province solidity at the starting 10.

I could see Charlie Tector going down to Munster or Connacht.

I would see Tector going to Munster as Plan D or E for Munster. They will absolutely want an experienced player to back up Crowley. That is why Freddie Burns is an ideal fit for a season or 2. They get experience in a position of need and maintain the NIQ designation which they could use on a winger or hooker or loosehead prop.

Ulster seems to be the place that sucks the talent out of excellent players. Over the years far too many promising players enter the academy and end up going nowhere. That is bound to be the event in some cases but nearly all of them? Every year? Guys that look top-notch in the U20s disappear without trace. Look at what happens to guys who move into development contracts or full contracts. It doesn't take long for them to start to tail off. We even have a situation where one of our top wingers gives up the game at 26. Stockdale would have his flaws ironed out if he was a Leinster player. Baloucoune looked fantastic for a good while and then the inevitable decline sets in. Others who are clearly capable of high levels of play seem to do it about 20% of the time. Some who are in this bracket also hardly ever get to play e.g. Harry Sheridan and others over the years. I'm sure most contributors on here look at Ulster and scratch their heads at how the team lurches from game to game, season to season, performances going up and down like an express lift.

There are well known and widely discussed 'structural' problems which impact on professional rugby in N.I. society and also how massive changes in education, such as the emasculation of the private school system and the massive drain to universities in GB have reduced the opportunity for access to the game.

If I was a player of the status of Deegan, Frawley or H.B. I wouldn't touch Ulster with a barge pole under the current regime. It has never been entirely up to scratch since about 2013. However, it's not just at the pro level that problems exist. I would love Deegan to be an Ulster player. He is a class act.

If LAR beat Sale, they'll be third seeds unless Leicester beat Leinster.

While I generally agree with the overall sentiment, there’s a stunning amount of hyperbole here so I’m going to have to, unfortunately, defend Ulster.

Our academy is admittedly woeful but I’m struggling to think of literally anyone who was top notch at u20 level and disappeared without a trace. There are plenty of guys who, in my opinion, were barely serviceable at that level and wouldn’t have made the squad in a different year group.

If we are going to blame Ulster for declines then we should damn well be giving them credit for their rise. No Leinster produced winger has come close to the heights stockdale reached, and if you put any value in Gordon darcy’s opinion then he may have lost all that made him great if he came though at Leinster. If leinster could fix stockdale then why do I still have to watch Larmour immediately make a 90 degree turn as soon as a defender comes with eyesight? Why is chis cosgrave spending his time in the AIL because he’s allergic to tackling, or why was Andrew smith let go because he dropped balls like he made a bet? Both highly rated players coming through. Stockdale had many flaws to start with but much of his downfall has been due to losing his explosiveness because of several injuries.

Not sure why Baloucoune is being brought up as some massive downfall when most only had him picking up a few caps. Out of form? Certainly. Decline? Bit much. He never got called up to Ireland u18, u10 or u20, and he barely played any sevens. Surely Ulster have done very well getting him to the standard he’s at?

Nick Timoney has done fantastic in earning Ireland caps, as did Eric O’Sullivan, thanks to Ulster. Many players who move were never good enough if we are being honest, and while I believe that generally the best strategy is to stay at Leinster, I do believe we are not a barrier to players of a certain level progressing further, despite how poor we were last year.

Bourgarit out for 3-4 months is a huge loss for them.