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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭50HX


    Would agree with this unless farrell is goin to rip up the style of play completely considering he has a long term deal....v unlikely tho.

    Last time we had wholesale changes was gatland bringing in the young guns but his back was to the wall that time so a bit of free shot in some aspects

    Would like to see baird & nash starting, crowley is a given, outside of that would be as is I suspect



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I posted this in the Champions Cup thread in response to a comment by mistake, better posted here:

    My prediction for our 37 man squad (using the same composition as last year's squad is as follows):

    Props (6): Tadgh Furlong, Finlay Bealham, Tom O'Toole, Andrew Porter, Jeremy Loughman, Cian Healy

    Hookers (3): Dan Sheehan, Ronan Kelleher, Tom Stewart

    Locks (4): James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne, Joe McCarthy, Iain Henderson

    Back Row (7): Caelan Doris, Josh van der Flier, Peter O'Mahony, Jack Conan, Ryan Baird, Tom Ahern, Cian Prendergast

    Scrum Halves (3): Jamison Gibson Park, Craig Casey, Caolin Blade

    Out Halves (3): Jack Crowley, Ciaran Frawley, Ross Byrne

    Centres (4): Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, Robbie Henshaw, Stuart McCloskey

    Back Three (7): Hugo Keenan, James Lowe, Calvin Nash, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Shane Daly, Shayne Bolton


    On the groupings, I don't see a viable alternative to Cian Healy, especially as there are concerns still around Loughman. It won't surprise me if Healy benched in Marseille.

    I've picked the back row I think he'll select - it's useful as Ahern and Baird can also cover lock. I wouldn't personally select effectively four blindsides, and would give a spot to one of Timoney or Hodnett.

    Not 100% sure obviously he'll move on from Murray - but his form has been poor. Nathan Doak isn't playing enough and isn't playing well enough to justify inclusion yet (unless as a development player), so Blade is probably next up if they move on from Murray.

    Equally - there aren't a whole host of 10 options. No idea what way he'll go there.

    I've taken a bolter in the back three in Bolton - but I really struggled to fill out 7 back three places and think he has a kind of abrasive style that Farrell will like. He's been playing very well and is still very young. Makes absolute sense to me to bring him and get a better look at him. He deserves the spot ahead of Baloucoune right now IMO.

    EDIT: Updated for the news that Herring is likely out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,450 ✭✭✭Wegians89


    Agree with this largely but would go with Hodnett or Timoney ahead of Ahern and think Murray will be ahead of Blade. Would love to see the likes of Boyle, Aungier, Gleeson, Prendergast and Forde in as development players too

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    We won't be doing anything dramatic for this 6N. Maybe a few more integrated into the squad, build on that in the summer (with a first choice team still taking the field in SA) and then selection moving on in the autumn with longer term prospects being integrated into the 23 on a more permanent basis.

    Might see a bit of 6N change for Italy in Dublin where guys like Ahern, Prendergast and TOT might be in the 23 but certainly don't envisage anything but our strongest and most settled 23 for the trip to Marseille. We simply don't have time to get a new team integrated; they haven't been together as a group since the RWC and will have just over a week together before the team is named.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    My Guess.


    Props (6): Tadgh Furlong, Finlay Bealham, Tom O'Toole, Andrew Porter, Jeremy Loughman, Michael Milne

    Hookers (3): Dan Sheehan, Ronan Kelleher, Tom Stewart

    Locks (4): James Ryan, Tadhg Beirne, Joe McCarthy, Iain Henderson

    Back Row (7): Caelan Doris Captain., Josh van der Flier, John Hodnett, Jack Conan, Ryan Baird, Tom Ahern, Cian Prendergast

    Scrum Halves (3): Jamison Gibson Park, Craig Casey, Nathan Doak.

    Out Halves (3): Jack Crowley, Ciaran Frawley, Sam Prendergast 

    Centres (4): Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, Robbie Henshaw, James Hume

    Back Three (7): Hugo Keenan, James Lowe, Calvin Nash, Jacob Stockdale, Jordan Larmour, Shane Daly, Tommy O'Brien.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Milne hasn't played this season - so I can't see how you can him one niggle in a warm up away from benching against the French (even allowing for the fact Porter invariably plays 70 odd mins).

    I can't see POM not making the squad - the impact of his leadership and lineout nous was evident for Munster at the weekend.

    I'd be hugely surprised to see Nathan Doak or Sam Prendergast in the squad, unless as development players. Same thought on Tommy O'Brien (prob too old to be a development player) but don't think he's done enough to warrant this.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,705 ✭✭✭Shehal


    If he does rip things up he isnt going to do it this 6N and even then if there is a change it will be gradual like it was in the last WC campaign.


    Despite not getting to the SF we still had a good year in 2023 so there's no need to start again, just keep things settled for now and then gradually change things.



  • Administrators Posts: 53,799 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The non-test games in particular this time are going to be mind numbing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Pom's lineout Nous was clearly evendent in the world cup all right.

    Healy 36, Murray 34 and O'Mahony 34 have been great servants to Ireland but professional sport is no place for sentiment. Ireland need to start to move on from them.

    There is plenty of experience in the squad if they were not included. None of them are considered guaranteed starters anymore. And could be considered as 3rd choice on their position in some circumstances so best to move on and have a look at alternative options.

    If there is an injury they can be called up if required.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    This is the strongest position Farrell has been thus far in his tenure. New irfu contract, cubs contract, plus RWC draw isn't until Jan '26 this time.

    Wouldn't be surprised if he had changed it up this 6N - But limited scope for change.

    I agree on your logic on Healy but Its time to say goodbye - But who?

    Same for Murray - I've wanted Doak for awhile.....But Ulster!

    Is it poor coaching Or what is going on at Ulster? Excl Henderson Zero improvement from their players - Epitomised by Baloucoune (& even Lowry)

    Also agree with the selection of Bolton instead.

    Connors maybe over Prendergast or injured again?


    I'd be all for Prendergast over Frawley.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,557 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I would move on from the senior players. Certainly Murray. But Blade is really not good enough. I think Murray makes the squad. I think Healy benches v France and England. Otherwise give Loughman the remainder games. O'Toole has been better than Bealham this season...

    O'Mahoney could be similar to Healy. He's near the end and this could be his last 6nations. It's going to be interesting to see how Furlong plays. Will he recover his form?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Yeah, Healy is in the same position he's been in for years now. Everyone thinks he's past it, but he is still the second best loosehead at Leinster and Ireland, and until someone shows they're better than him, he'll continue to be.

    Boyle got some good minutes for Leinster this year (291 mins, 4 starts, 3 sub appearances) and did well in those mins, but he isn't ready for European or international rugby yet IMO at 21 years of age in the front row.

    There just aren't other options - especially with Kilcoyne injured. Josh Wycherley isn't good enough, Denis Buckley has never been considered, Peter Dooley isn't good enough and Andrew Warwick isn't good enough.

    If Michael Milne hadn't been injured all season it's reasonable to assume he'd have racked up some good minutes again and might be in there, but I can't see it yet.

    On the Ulster issue - I'd share your criticism of the development of some players. If you go back to the 2022 6N and the tour to NZ, you had all of Timoney, Lowry, Hume & Baloucoune well in the mix for Ireland. To flash forward to the following season and see all four miss the RWC really shows something went wrong last season up there, and none of those players progressed.

    I think Timoney and Hume look to have rediscovered some form this season, and clearly Stewart and O'Toole have emerged, but there is a lingering fear IMO the current Ulster coaching ticket aren't getting the most out of the talent at their disposal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,314 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Joy Neville moving on from refereeing to become a ref development manager in Connacht





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,840 ✭✭✭ionadnapokot


    Boyle is the only ray of sunshine on the horizon of LH. Great to see his improvement.

    Cant remember which game he came on in for Healy but he looked more powerful in the loose and held up a scrum or two. Yes, France is a different kettle of fish!

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭Utah_Saint


    I think the Ulster forwards have shown signs of improvement. Especially the emergence of players like McCann, Sheridan and Wilson. Its the backs where the problem is. They have regressed quite a bit in past 18months. I have no doubt if  Baloucoune, Stockdale and Doak were at Leinster they would be levels above current form.


    Frawley might get the nod due to versatility. Although Prendergast will be involved in all training squads and most like next cab off the rank in case of injury.



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    flights and accommodation in marseilles booked.

    getting excited now !!



  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    Any hassle getting tickets?



  • Subscribers Posts: 41,589 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    been told i have them through my club, but not in my possession yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,471 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Agree on the Ulster backs, but there's no mystery.


    Dwayne Peel and Jared Payne left.


    Our backs play was non-existent last season, and laboured this. Our defence has fallen off a cliff.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    Six Nations squad due out today



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,258 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    POM reported as captain. If he has a contract, then it's the right call for the coming tournament and summer tour.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,519 ✭✭✭typhoony


    I know the argument for not moving on from the 3 senior players will be that wasn't what we did with Sexton. But he was clearly still head and shoulders above the young guns behind whereas with Healy, Murray and O'Mahony there are clearly viable younger options that should now be given their chance. More importantly there's enough experience in the squad not to have POM as captain. He's not going to be around in 2025 is my belief



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,564 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    POM as captain is 100% the right call


    now just sort out his contract



  • Registered Users Posts: 341 ✭✭bingobango12


    What have the poor referees of Connacht done to deserve that punishment.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    For once I'd like to see Ireland go with a captain who won't be nearly 40 at the next World Cup. But this is Irish rugby we're talking about so I don't have high expectations.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭Must love hardship


    Pretty frustrating call if true.

    Best was too old to be captain for 2019 WC. Sexton was too old to be captain in 23 and pom will be too old by 27.

    Hopefully it's only a short term appointment until end of the season



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭GoldFour4


    Think POM as captain is clearly the correct call. Captain for 2 years and then see who is best placed before the next WC and appoint then.

    I don’t buy the whole thing of appointing a captain with the next WC in mind. A lot can happen in that time span. New leaders will emerge and players who might be on the cusp of captaincy could improve further or drop a level for that matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Best's captaincy was supposed to be "short term". Sexton's captaincy was supposed to be "short term". Ireland are too sentimental and never ruthless enough to take the captaincy from established players and move on when they need to. If POM is named captain, we'll see the exact same sh*te play out again over the next 4 years.



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,357 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    IF it’s POM it’s not for the next World Cup it’s for the next year or two. It’ll be no big deal so let’s all fetch our pitchforks and start arguing about World Cup cycles and same mistakes over and over.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,941 ✭✭✭TRC10




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